Landric
Member
I think a soft lead 200 grain SWCHP would be really interesting. Of course I have never seen 200 grain SWCHP, 200 grain SWCs exist, they are just not very common.
38 Special 200gr
- Thread starter BreakerDan
- Start date
LouisianaMan
Member
Seems I've stumbled into a discussion of my favorite subject--200 grain .38 loads!
Landric, I need to touch base with you on how you're loading to obtain those velocities. Those will hit with authority! Maybe I'll dust off my Forster hollow-pointer after all & use it on some of my Mt. Baldy 200g LSWC-Ks. Also, I need to try that 30-1 mix to cast softer bullets more likely to expand, then drill the noses of some of my 358430s. I think my eventual SD/HD selection will be SAECO #351, a 200g FNPB, cast soft, hollow-pointed. Best combo of weight, shape, sotness, and expansion. Thoughts?
When I recently tested a few factory W-W 200g loads provided by another shooter, they chrono'ed 605fps from my 2" snubbie. One round was 681fps from a 4" revolver. A round from the snubbie penetrated 5 gallon milk jugs at 10', then veered off to miss jug #6, dent a 2x12, and carom away.
When I tested 200g LSWC-K at 718fps from 2" bbl., it bored straight thru 6 jugs, drove into the 2x12 up to the driving band--knocking down the board--then fell out. As someone noted, penetration in different media can be tricky; I suspect that the 200g lead .38 is good on soft stuff, not hard stuff.
My current defense load for standard pressure .38s and snubbies is the LSWC-K load at 750fps from a 4" bbl. I'll see what hollowpointing in soft lead will do, as soon as I get my hands on some pure lead. (I have only WW at this time.)
As another poster mentioned, the Brits put stock in the wounding properties of soft lead bullets, both in .455 and the subsequent .380/200. More modern studies often indicate the same thing. Notably, Buffalo Bore touts the softness of some of its defense loads. . .and I imagine it's because he buys some of the same logic.
Landric, I need to touch base with you on how you're loading to obtain those velocities. Those will hit with authority! Maybe I'll dust off my Forster hollow-pointer after all & use it on some of my Mt. Baldy 200g LSWC-Ks. Also, I need to try that 30-1 mix to cast softer bullets more likely to expand, then drill the noses of some of my 358430s. I think my eventual SD/HD selection will be SAECO #351, a 200g FNPB, cast soft, hollow-pointed. Best combo of weight, shape, sotness, and expansion. Thoughts?
When I recently tested a few factory W-W 200g loads provided by another shooter, they chrono'ed 605fps from my 2" snubbie. One round was 681fps from a 4" revolver. A round from the snubbie penetrated 5 gallon milk jugs at 10', then veered off to miss jug #6, dent a 2x12, and carom away.
When I tested 200g LSWC-K at 718fps from 2" bbl., it bored straight thru 6 jugs, drove into the 2x12 up to the driving band--knocking down the board--then fell out. As someone noted, penetration in different media can be tricky; I suspect that the 200g lead .38 is good on soft stuff, not hard stuff.
My current defense load for standard pressure .38s and snubbies is the LSWC-K load at 750fps from a 4" bbl. I'll see what hollowpointing in soft lead will do, as soon as I get my hands on some pure lead. (I have only WW at this time.)
As another poster mentioned, the Brits put stock in the wounding properties of soft lead bullets, both in .455 and the subsequent .380/200. More modern studies often indicate the same thing. Notably, Buffalo Bore touts the softness of some of its defense loads. . .and I imagine it's because he buys some of the same logic.
Landric
Member
LA Man, I'm sending you a PM on the subject.
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I have some of the original "dogbone" Rem 200 gr ammo and have not shot any of it. In reading Elmer Keith, he achieved the velocities and pentration with a 160gr bullet which he thought was about right for the caliber. In fact, he liked his 160gr load in the 38/44 better than his 357 Mag loads! As soon as I located a source for the 160gr, I plan on working up a load similiar to Elmers for use in one of my Heavy Duties.
Bill
Bill
Jerry in SC
Member
Bill,
Rim Rock Bullets, Premium Cast Lead Bullets makes the bullets used by Buffalo Bore.
Their 158 grain hard cast SWC is a great bullet. While it's not exactly a Keith, it is a very close substitute.
Best,
Jerry
Rim Rock Bullets, Premium Cast Lead Bullets makes the bullets used by Buffalo Bore.
Their 158 grain hard cast SWC is a great bullet. While it's not exactly a Keith, it is a very close substitute.
Best,
Jerry
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Thanks Jerry for the info! I've already checked them out!
Bill
Bill
cxm
Member
Bill
Leadhead makes a real Keith bullet that weighs 168gr IIRC.
It might be what you want... very accurate and very high quality bullets.
FWIW
Chuck
Leadhead makes a real Keith bullet that weighs 168gr IIRC.
It might be what you want... very accurate and very high quality bullets.
FWIW
Chuck
Peter M. Eick
Member
I agree. Leadhead bullets are true Keith style bullets, and very accurate. I have played a bit with the 168 grn (PMK357-168) and had very good luck with it.
My only regret is they are expensive. Currently 121$ for a 1000 of them.
By the way, they are located in St John Kansas. Maybe you can pop over there and save yourself some shipping?
My only regret is they are expensive. Currently 121$ for a 1000 of them.
By the way, they are located in St John Kansas. Maybe you can pop over there and save yourself some shipping?
Erich
Member
How do you figure, "too heavy" for the .38 Spl? My handloads (using old published data and referenced above) work great.
Landric
Member
If anyone here is interested, I'm trying to get a group buy together on the Cast Boolits forum for a 200 grain PB SWC mold.
As for 200 grain bullets in .38 Special and .357 Magnum, the current Lee manual has data, and there is plenty of data in older Lyman manuals.
So far I've hit 875 fps safely in .38 Special brass, and 1100 fps safely in magnum brass using the Lyman 358430.
As for 200 grain bullets in .38 Special and .357 Magnum, the current Lee manual has data, and there is plenty of data in older Lyman manuals.
So far I've hit 875 fps safely in .38 Special brass, and 1100 fps safely in magnum brass using the Lyman 358430.
LouisianaMan
Member
Landric,
Count me in on that group buy. Hopefully some other guys here will be interested.
Jwist,
200g too heavy for .38SPL? My 750fps load in 4" bbl. .38SPL revolvers will *smack* targets, and it's only a close approximation to the old "Highway Patrol" loading of 770fps from a 6" bbl. Fired in LSWC profile from a snubby, this load pounds straight thru 6 milk jugs of water (36") and into a 2x12.
Load it to +P pressures, and get even more performance. Add in soft bullets, perhaps with gas checks as made by Rim Rock Bullets for Buffalo Bore, and what would it add? Give it a SWC profile for max wounding efficiency. . .OK, so it's not a solution to every need, but it sure seems to offer a lot of capability in SD/HD situations.
Don't look only at the old mild loads, look at the "Highway Patrol" load & modern handloaded approximations/improvements before you write this one off. I'd like to see what type of performance Buffalo Bore could get with a slug this heavy with the powders/techniques he uses to keep pressures low. Seems likely we could have a heavyweight expanding slug at velocities that would open some eyes.
Count me in on that group buy. Hopefully some other guys here will be interested.
Jwist,
200g too heavy for .38SPL? My 750fps load in 4" bbl. .38SPL revolvers will *smack* targets, and it's only a close approximation to the old "Highway Patrol" loading of 770fps from a 6" bbl. Fired in LSWC profile from a snubby, this load pounds straight thru 6 milk jugs of water (36") and into a 2x12.
Load it to +P pressures, and get even more performance. Add in soft bullets, perhaps with gas checks as made by Rim Rock Bullets for Buffalo Bore, and what would it add? Give it a SWC profile for max wounding efficiency. . .OK, so it's not a solution to every need, but it sure seems to offer a lot of capability in SD/HD situations.
Don't look only at the old mild loads, look at the "Highway Patrol" load & modern handloaded approximations/improvements before you write this one off. I'd like to see what type of performance Buffalo Bore could get with a slug this heavy with the powders/techniques he uses to keep pressures low. Seems likely we could have a heavyweight expanding slug at velocities that would open some eyes.
bmcgilvray
Member
I like the notion of a 200 grain SWC at 850 fps, doable in a 4-inch barrel of one minds his P's & Q's. Put me down for one of those 200 grain SWC molds.
Landric
Member
Do me a favor and post your interest here:
Any interest in a .359-.360 200 grain PB SWC? - Cast Boolits
I'm trying to get enough folks to post interest there to get it turned into an active group buy.
Thanks!
