.38 Special, pre 10 or 36 model? Who Knows?

[Iris]

I am new to the S&W forum. I recently acquired a .38 special and cannot identify whether it is pre 10 or 36 model. The serial number is C149596. The serial number is stamped on the handle, barrel and cylinder. There are numbers on the yoke stem in two lines, 27 on the first line and 7324B. From my research, I believe it is a pre-model number revolver (10 or 36?). I am attaching pictures.
I called S&W and they could only tell me that the C in the serial indicates that it could be a 1948 to 1951 model.
Here's what I know about it:
Nickle plated - without original grips
Gold, checkered hammer and cylinder release
Gold, knurled trigger
2" barrel
Double action
6 shot
Square butt
5 screw
Half moon single site
Hand extractor with rod knob
Pinned barrel
Post-war Made in USA mark
Non-recessed cylinders
Looks like a round firing pin
Two line S&W with 38S&W SPC CTG on barrel

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Probably around 1951, maybe 1950. Pre-10.

The "pre-36" is smaller, and holds only five rounds.

Chambers were recessed on magnums, not on .38 Spl.

 

[Iris]

Thank you, Model520Fan. I appreciate your help. Do you know if the non-stock grips affect the value?

 

[Cooter Brown]

The grips are really pretty neat--a lot of people like that style. Are there anything like gemstones in the eyes?

The gun has been refinished by someone other than the factory. The telltale sign for this is the nickel finish on the ejector star-- on a factory nickel job the ejector star is blued, not nickeled. And of course the hammer and trigger are refinished as well. The refinish affects the value much more than the grips.

 

[murphydog]

Both the .38 Military & Police (your gun) and the Chiefs Special were being made in 1951; the differences are in frame size, cylinder capacity (6 vs. 5) and the serial number format. The CS had a simple number and the K frames had either a K or (edit - "C") prefix.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Well, probably many folks here would like to see stock grips, but, as pointed out, the refinish is more significant. Altogether, you have something other than a factory stock pre-10 of the time, but your something other seems to me to be integrated. Those grips are, IMO, quite appropriate for a gun with gold hammer, trigger and latch. Can you tell what they are made of? By the photos it's hard to be absolutely sure they're not ivory, although they look to be plastic. Either way, they match the rest of the gun.

With a properly-fitting screwdriver, gently make sure that the strain screw (in the front grip strap) is screwed all the way in.

Not exactly my style, but with the right holster, it might be a good BBQ gun, especially if those grips are ivory.

 

[linde]

Both the .38 Military & Police (your gun) and the Chiefs Special were being made in 1951; the differences are in frame size, cylinder capacity (6 vs. 5) and the serial number format. The CS had a simple number and the K frames had either a K or S prefix.

Of course for K-frames with fixed sights, the "S" prefix ended in the Fall of 1948 and the "C" prefix began . . . thus confirming the OP's 1951 C-prefix example.

Russ

 

[Iris]

Thank you, Cooter Brown. I'm happy to have the gun, but my hopes of it being really rare are dwendling. It has a history; was carried by a slain officer. Some of the history is family related, so it will make a good heirloom. I appreciate your expertise.

 

[Iris]

Thank you, murphydog. Good information, with your help and the help of others on the forum, I'm learning a lot about this gun. I really appreciate it.

 

[Iris]

Thanks, again, for your help. I will look for a source to help me identify whether or not the grips are actually, ivory. Enjoy your day.

 

[Iris]

I checked and the strain screw it is tight, tight, tight. Thank you for the tip.

 

[Iris]

Well, probably many folks here would like to see stock grips, but, as pointed out, the refinish is more significant. Altogether, you have something other than a factory stock pre-10 of the time, but your something other seems to me to be integrated. Those grips are, IMO, quite appropriate for a gun with gold hammer, trigger and latch. Can you tell what they are made of? By the photos it's hard to be absolutely sure they're not ivory, although they look to be plastic. Either way, they match the rest of the gun.

With a properly-fitting screwdriver, gently make sure that the strain screw (in the front grip strap) is screwed all the way in.

Not exactly my style, but with the right holster, it might be a good BBQ gun, especially if those grips are ivory.

I'm still researching the grips, they could be aged ivory. I need more information to decide. I may be able to get a local opinion. I want to be sure that I know as much about this gun as I can. Since I'm appealing to your expertise, I want to be careful how I ask this question. Is there a way to be sure that a gun has been nickled?
The ejector star looks as if it could have been blue at one time. When I look at the numbers and other info on the gun, the stamping looks so crisp, it's hard to believe that the plating isn't original. I'm not discounting your expertise, just wish I knew more about the plating process.
I'm probably trying too hard to make it what it isn't.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I am not an expert on whether or not a Smith is refinished. I was really referring more to the trigger-hammer-latch plating. I seem to recall hearing before what was said about extractors, but, like I say, I'm not an expert. Even with better photos, I would be in no position to question your judgment based on your having actually viewed the stamping up close.

Good luck, and I hope those grips turn out to be ivory. Either way, the gun has a certain character.

 

[Jimmyjones]

A factory nickel will have an 'N' stamped on the right side of the grip frame, on the bottom of the barrel and on the face of the cylinder.

 

[mikepriwer]

Iris

I assume your question is about whether or not the gun has been refinished, and not
just simply finished.

Some parts of the gun do not have a standard factory finish, and that is a general
indication that the gun has been refinished. Standard finish for the hammer and
trigger is case-coloring. This is not gold, but a straw color with irregular areas of
blue. When we see non-standard finish on the hammer and/or trigger, we associate
that with the gun being refinished. Likewise, the standard finish for the cylinder
release is not gold. Finally, even on nickel guns, the extractor star is never nickel
plated. It is always blue.

All of these things infer that the gun has been refinished. If it has been, the original
finish was either blue or nickel. Generally, if its nickel, there is a large N on the
grip frame, under the grips. You can remove the grips and look for this marking.
If it is present, then there is still this inference that the gun has been replated.

There are often tell-tale signs of a refinish, which result from any filing and/or
polishing that are necessary for the refinish. I don't see any of those from the
pictures you provided, other than the appearance of the sideplate; it looks like
it isn't fitting quite right. But - that may just be the picture.

The only way to know the original finish is to request a factory letter. If the
records are available, this will tell you how the gun was finished when it was shipped,
when it was shipped, and where.

Mike Priwer

 

[Iris]

I am not an expert on whether or not a Smith is refinished. I was really referring more to the trigger-hammer-latch plating. I seem to recall hearing before what was said about extractors, but, like I say, I'm not an expert. Even with better photos, I would be in no position to question your judgment based on your having actually viewed the stamping up close.

Good luck, and I hope those grips turn out to be ivory. Either way, the gun has a certain character.

I am so new at this and I want you to know that the information you provided is invaluable. I think it's time to get eyes-on from a local gun expert. I can't tell you how much your opinion is appreciated. I feel that with your help and that of others on this thread, I've practiced due diligence. Thank you very much.

 

[Iris]

I am not an expert on whether or not a Smith is refinished. I was really referring more to the trigger-hammer-latch plating. I seem to recall hearing before what was said about extractors, but, like I say, I'm not an expert. Even with better photos, I would be in no position to question your judgment based on your having actually viewed the stamping up close.

Good luck, and I hope those grips turn out to be ivory. Either way, the gun has a certain character.

Is it relevant that the grip frame has a "T" and "W" on it?
I am so new at this and I want you to know that the information you provided is invaluable. I think it's time to get eyes-on from a local gun expert. I can't tell you how much your opinion is appreciated. I feel that with your help and that of others on this thread, I've practiced due diligence. Thank you very much.

 

[Iris]

Iris

I assume your question is about whether or not the gun has been refinished, and not
just simply finished.

Some parts of the gun do not have a standard factory finish, and that is a general
indication that the gun has been refinished. Standard finish for the hammer and
trigger is case-coloring. This is not gold, but a straw color with irregular areas of
blue. When we see non-standard finish on the hammer and/or trigger, we associate
that with the gun being refinished. Likewise, the standard finish for the cylinder
release is not gold. Finally, even on nickel guns, the extractor star is never nickel
plated. It is always blue.

All of these things infer that the gun has been refinished. If it has been, the original
finish was either blue or nickel. Generally, if its nickel, there is a large N on the
grip frame, under the grips. You can remove the grips and look for this marking.
If it is present, then there is still this inference that the gun has been replated.

There are often tell-tale signs of a refinish, which result from any filing and/or
polishing that are necessary for the refinish. I don't see any of those from the
pictures you provided, other than the appearance of the sideplate; it looks like
it isn't fitting quite right. But - that may just be the picture.

The only way to know the original finish is to request a factory letter. If the
records are available, this will tell you how the gun was finished when it was shipped,
when it was shipped, and where.

Mike Priwer

Thank you, Mike. Is it relevant that the grip frame has a "T" and "W" on it?
I am so new at this and I want you to know that the information you provided is invaluable. I think it's time to get eyes-on from a local gun expert. Thank you very much.

 

[JSR III]

Thank you, Mike. Is it relevant that the grip frame has a "T" and "W" on it?

Welcome to the forum. NO, the letters T and W are merely fitters marks and have no significance outside the factory. The letters and numbers in the yoke area are assembly numbers and were used back in the day when certain parts were hand fitted to the gun. This includes the side plate. That same yoke number will appear on the back of the side plate if original to the gun. These numbers were needed to get these fitted parts back together after the gun was disassembled for finishing. Once the gun was finished, either blue or nickel, the numbers helped get these fitted parts back on the gun.

Guns can be refinished without overly disturbing the words and numbers by a quality re-finisher. These letters and words can also be re-cut, so this is not necessarily a good way to judge a refinish.

As my learned colleagues have advised above, poor fitting side plates or ones with rounded edges at the seam, plated hammers and triggers, platted extractors or flattened round pins are some of the others things we look for.

There are many guns out there that were done in the style of your gun with steer head stocks and bright nickel finish and as someone stated, these guns are referred to as barbecue guns. Merely having the steer head stocks would raise a flag to me that the gun might be a refinish.

It's a cool gun and may have some LEO history but remember you are buying the gun and not the story. Unless a very famous person once owned it or it was at the OK corral, there is no added value.

 

[LedFowl]

Being someone who, as a child, rode with Roy Rodgers, the Lone Ranger and many other TV cowboys, let me just say that those grips are outstanding.