Pre-36 Baby Chief ?

[Crazywader]

At the recommendation of another member, I am reposting this here (I hope this is the 'right' place).

I recently acquired this pre-M36 and simply wanted to share it with others - I'm excited! I'd been looking for one for a while and I'm happy with this find. I referenced J. Supica and R. Hahas' Standard Catalog of S&W 2nd ed. and assume that this was manufactured in 1951 or 1952 based on the serial number (404x). The same four-digit serial number is located on the bottom of the barrel, cylinder, on the inside of both grips, and butt. The yoke does not have the model number. It's got a smooth ramp without serrations. I count 4 screws visible including the one on the front of the trigger guard. No box. I'm assuming it's a pre-M36 also known as a Baby Chief?

I'd love to hear back from anyone on their thoughts.

 

[Frailer]

That is indeed a "Baby" Chiefs Special, and it likely shipped in early 1952.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Most consider a pre-model the one before model numbers were assigned. You have a .38 Chiefs Special with a five-screw frame. The first carbon steel Chiefs with four-screw frames shipped in June 1954. Carbon steel Chiefs with three-screw frames showed up in April 1956. The first known Chiefs Special stamped MOD-36 shipped on September 4, 1958.

I've not seen the serial number stamped inside the left stock before. Photos?

The last one known to have shipped in 1951 was serial number 1825.

Although there were Chiefs with the original service type front sight after 2928, the confirmed smooth front sights appear on serial numbers 2928 through 12750.

 

[H Richard]

You may want to recount, there are 5 screws. 4 on the side plate and one in front of the trigger guard. Really a great looking Baby.

 

[s&wchad]

Nice gun!
The 4th sideplate screw you didn't notice is hiding under the right grip panel.

 

[Crazywader]

Most consider a pre-model the one before model numbers were assigned. You have a .38 Chiefs Special with a five-screw frame. The first carbon steel Chiefs with four-screw frames shipped in June 1954. Carbon steel Chiefs with three-screw frames showed up in April 1956. The first known Chiefs Special stamped MOD-36 shipped on September 4, 1958.

I've not seen the serial number stamped inside the left stock before. Photos?

The last one known to have shipped in 1951 was serial number 1825.

Although there were Chiefs with the original service type front sight after 2928, the confirmed smooth front sights appear on serial numbers 2928 through 12750.

Many thanks to you and the others here for all this information!

I missed the screw under the grip - This is a 5-screw version. And, I stand corrected, the serial number is stamped only on the inside of the right stock.

Based on your reply, did I interpret the following correctly?

1. I have a 'pre-model' (no model number is stamped inside the yoke)

2. The 2nd and 3rd edition catalog both suggests this one would have been manufactured in 1951 (extrapolated since the lists skips the year 1951 and the starting serial number for 1952 is #7369). Per your note above, it didn't ship until after 1951. Do you know if the newer editions reflect this information? I suppose a Factory Letter might provide more information? Or, would a letter draw from your data base?

Two additional questions:

1. There is a very small picture of the variations of the flat latch in the back of the 3rd edition catalog. Is this one above an 'early' or 'flared' flat latch?

2. Does the term "Baby" only apply to those with the rounded front sight (half-moon) or does it generally apply to all pre-models (those prior to the model number in the yoke - pre-1957)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[s&wchad]

... Does the term "Baby" only apply to those with the rounded front sight (half-moon) or does it generally apply to all pre-models (those prior to the model number in the yoke - pre-1957)?

No.
The Baby Chiefs Special has a rounded trigger guard and shorter grip frame, compared to J frames made after 1953.
There were three variations of front sight on the Baby: Half round, non-serrated ramp and serrated ramp.

Late Baby:


1969 J frame.

 

[JH1951]

..........
Based on your reply, did I interpret the following correctly?

1. I have a 'pre-model' (no model number is stamped inside the yoke)

Crazywader, the Baby Chiefs Special you opened the discussion with is a handsome piece that many of us would be very happy to own.

You have a 'pre-model' in the sense that it was manufactured prior to model numbers being assigned..... but, in collector speak, a true 'pre-model' is one that was made prior to, and in the same configuration of, the model marked ones. Using that criteria, no Baby Chiefs is a 'pre-model 36'. The baby Chiefs Special you have was several iterations prior to model numbers being assigned. e.g. yours is a 5-screw, with the smaller butt frame, and the round (not egg shaped) trigger guard. After your Baby, there was a Baby Chiefs with a serrated front sight (all Baby Chiefs were 5-screw). Then came some changes; the frame grip size became 1/8" longer, the trigger guard was elongated (to egg shape), and the screw count dropped to 4 with the elimination of the trigger guard screw. These modifications are often called the "Model of 1953" changes. This is when the Baby Chiefs 'grew up'....... Shortly thereafter, the large screw at the top of the sideplate was eliminated making the Chiefs Special a 3-screw model. There were 3-screw non-model marked ones produced. These would be a 'pre-model 36' to the purist, as the model marked Model 36 was in this same configuration.

Pictured below is a 3-screw non-model marked Chiefs Special that would qualify it as a 'pre-model 36'. It shipped in July, 1956. There were about 59,000 produced in this configuration and they may be found in the SN range +/- 72759 to +/- 132290. Pictured below is serial number 122205. This variation was a hard one for me to find in very good condition (not really sure why that was). Note that this one has the coarse checkering on the hammer as well (the earlier versions had a finer checkering).
I am open to any corrections needed in my statements.
Two-Bit-Cowboy has done his best trying to educate me and some things still elude my understanding (and he keeps trying).

.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

It appears ...Chad and JH... have answered most of your questions regarding what folks call your Chiefs Special. I will continue to call it a .38 Chiefs Special with a five-screw frame.

My database lists many serial numbers Messrs. Supica and Nahas did not have access to for those early editions of their fine tome.

The five-screw carbon steel Chiefs Special serial range is 1 - almost 46000. In that range I've estimated about 6,000 numbers are aluminum alloy Chiefs Special Airweights.

Smith & Wesson neither produced nor shipped Chiefs in serial order so you must be skeptical about serial and date ranges. The sole way to know the exact day yours departed the plant is to obtain a letter.

The serial number spread shipped in 1950 includes 6 - X59, 1951 includes serials 1 - 1825. Carbon steel serial numbers shipped in 1952 span 132 - 24825, and a number of Chiefs Special Airweights shipped in 1952 also.

Ah, the thumbpieces. You're looking at long out-of-date details in the older copies of the Catalog. One of my displays at the June 2025 Smith & Wesson Collectors Association symposium in Concord, North Carolina, portrayed thumbpieces the company used on Chiefs Specials from 1950 - 2025. I showed seven variations of the flat thumbpiece in my display. The first one had a short lifespan, and we had only seen it on serial numbers 16, 34, 99, and 101 (1950/51). History can change quickly. I saw serial number 54 in Concord, and it has the first flat thumbpiece. This month I've now seen serial numbers 10 and X58 (the second and third Chiefs Specials to ship in December 1950), and they also have the first flat thumbpiece. A gambling man might wager there are more.

Known second flat thumbpieces--like your plump oval thumbpiece--span serial numbers 111 - 36722 (1951/53).

 

[Crazywader]

It appears ...Chad and JH... have answered most of your questions regarding what folks call your Chiefs Special. I will continue to call it a .38 Chiefs Special with a five-screw frame.

My database lists many serial numbers Messrs. Supica and Nahas did not have access to for those early editions of their fine tome.

The five-screw carbon steel Chiefs Special serial range is 1 - almost 46000. In that range I've estimated about 6,000 numbers are aluminum alloy Chiefs Special Airweights.

Smith & Wesson neither produced nor shipped Chiefs in serial order so you must be skeptical about serial and date ranges. The sole way to know the exact day yours departed the plant is to obtain a letter.

The serial number spread shipped in 1950 includes 6 - X59, 1951 includes serials 1 - 1825. Carbon steel serial numbers shipped in 1952 span 132 - 24825, and a number of Chiefs Special Airweights shipped in 1952 also.

Ah, the thumbpieces. You're looking at long out-of-date details in the older copies of the Catalog. One of my displays at the June 2025 Smith & Wesson Collectors Association symposium in Concord, North Carolina, portrayed thumbpieces the company used on Chiefs Specials from 1950 - 2025. I showed seven variations of the flat thumbpiece in my display. The first one had a short lifespan, and we had only seen it on serial numbers 16, 34, 99, and 101 (1950/51). History can change quickly. I saw serial number 54 in Concord, and it has the first flat thumbpiece. This month I've now seen serial numbers 10 and X58 (the second and third Chiefs Specials to ship in December 1950), and they also have the first flat thumbpiece. A gambling man might wager there are more.

Known second flat thumbpieces--like your plump oval thumbpiece--span serial numbers 111 - 36722 (1951/53).

What an amazing amount of information - thank you!

1. I'm going to request a letter. I see it as an obligation - I'll post any new information here - hopefully give something back to those here on the forum now and in the future as well as the next keeper of this piece when I part with it.

2. I downloaded the forms for the S&WCA and the S&WHF and will get those in the mail soonest.

 

[DARE]

Good job, Crazywader! Join S&WCA and the SWHF first. You will pay $75 for the letter instead of $100.
I am also S&WCA and SWHF member. Wanted to support those organizations.
Appreciate your commitment to furthering the history of Smith & Wesson.

 

[VM]

Cw, nice Baby Chief!
Something else I noticed and believe to be true about your gun……
I think your grips have the plastic medallions which are scarce and happened about 51/52
Here's pics showing metal and plastic side by side.
If you ever have the grips off and yours are indeed plastic, be careful around the rivet head as it is plastic too and can break off.
(Your grips look beautiful and don't need restoration but people have ruined this style in past from soaking them in acetone)

 

[larryofcc]

FWIW, here is Baby # 1300. Shipped 12-51. Some moron buggered the screw on the flat latch. Big Larry

 

[VM]

I'm also very curious about your comment in original post about the grips being numbered on inside of both panels??
I have never seen or heard of that happening before

 

[DARE]

Bro, get a new screw.

 

[Riposte1]

I have two of them, one a 1951 and one a 1952 - they had smaller trigger guards and were about 1/4" shorter in the grip-frame



Riposte

 

[Crazywader]

I'm also very curious about your comment in original post about the grips being numbered on inside of both panels??
I have never seen or heard of that happening before

I was wrong (excitement got in the way of accuracy ). Only the right grip is marked with a matching serial number.