38 Spl in Henry 357

[Mikeinkaty]

Went to the range today. Shooting 125 grain MBC HI-Tek coated lead bullets using various loads of Titegroup powder in 38 Spl cases. All seated at the cannelure.

5 rounds each, 6,6.5,7,7.5 grains. Each round was hand fed. No flattened primers, no case buldging, no leading (checked after each different powder load).

Accuracy was horrible, getting progressively worse with each higher velocity load. Conclusion? I think the higher velocities caused problems because of the 0.25" gap between the bullet and rifle lands. Previously, I had not notice accuracy problems with 5.5 grains with Titegroup or 5.0 grains of Trail Boss with the 38 Spl case. Trail Boss was quite accurate.

After shooting the above loads I shot 5.5 grains of Titegroup in 357 mag cases. Accuracy was good. (I did not have any 357 brass loaded with 6 grains.

I would say if you shoot fully seated 38 Spl rounds in a Henry that you might want to keep the velocity down.

In the future I will use H110 with 357 brass in the Henry for 158 and 180 grain coated lead or full or partially plated bullets. I don't know right now if I'll load any more 38 Spl rounds for either the Henry or 686. I have plenty of 357 brass.

Mike

 

[Forrest r]

Went to the range today. Shooting 125 grain MBC HI-Tek coated lead bullets using various loads of Titegroup powder in 38 Spl cases. All seated at the cannelure.

5 rounds each, 6,6.5,7,7.5 grains. Each round was hand fed. No flattened primers, no case buldging, no leading (checked after each different powder load).

Accuracy was horrible, getting progressively worse with each higher velocity load. Conclusion? I think the higher velocities caused problems because of the 0.25" gap between the bullet and rifle lands. Previously, I had not notice accuracy problems with 5.5 grains with Titegroup or 5.0 grains of Trail Boss with the 38 Spl case. Trail Boss was quite accurate.

After shooting the above loads I shot 5.5 grains of Titegroup in 357 mag cases. Accuracy was good. (I did not have any 357 brass loaded with 6 grains.

I would say if you shoot fully seated 38 Spl rounds in a Henry that you might want to keep the velocity down.

In the future I will use H110 with 357 brass in the Henry for 158 and 180 grain coated lead or full or partially plated bullets. I don't know right now if I'll load any more 38 Spl rounds for either the Henry or 686. I have plenty of 357 brass.

Mike

5 rounds each, 6,6.5,7,7.5 grains. Each round was hand fed. No flattened primers, no case buldging, no leading (checked after each different powder load).

????

 

[Wishoot]

Curious if you tried to load and cycle any rounds from the tube or if you strictly hand-fed.

Would be very interested in this rifle if it cycles .38.

 

[44wheelman]

I shoot .38's in my Grizzly (pistol) because I hate losing my .357 brass at the indoor range. Load the .38 cases to +P+ (low end .357). Jacketed bullets only -135gr round nose. Gun feeds and functions fine. Accuracy drop at 15-20 yds was indeterminable.

Don't know why the additional +.13" in bullet jump caused so much trouble for you, perhaps a 158gr bullet would be better loaded in the .38 case. How accurate are your 125gr Hi-Tek bullets loaded in the .357?

I have also shot .44spl in my 1892 chambered in 44mag. No appreciable loss in accuracy up to 50yds.

 

[Mistered]

I find my .357 Henry performs best with heavier bullets and loaded up to typical upper-end .357 velocities. Recently I was shooting some 158 gr JSP with 16 gr of 296 and was getting ragged one hole groups at 50 yards.

 

[H Richard]

What's the twist rate in the rifle? I'd bet it was designed to more like 158 gr bullets. Why does everyone want to shoot light bullets in a 38? It was designed for a 158 gr. bullet, that's what works best.

 

[Clovishound]

Curious if you tried to load and cycle any rounds from the tube or if you strictly hand-fed.

Would be very interested in this rifle if it cycles .38.

I have a Big Boy Steel in .357. I occasionally run .38s through it. I always use 158 grain bullets. It will feed .38s just fine. The .357 are a little smoother, but I have had not real problems with .38s after the rifle was broken in. I did have some occasional feed issues when the rifle was brand new. Some changes to my reloading techniques, handling of the lever, and the rifle breaking in made these issues disappear in a couple hundred rounds. Not sure which of them made the difference. It was just the occasional round that balked going in the chamber, backing off with the lever and running it back in would get it chambered. Now it loads smoothly every time.

 

[Mikeinkaty]

I've never had any feed issues with the Henry 357. Not even when I loaded some dummy rounds in 357 cases to a COL of 1.69". The max COL for mine is 1.71". It shoots 125 grain fine in 357 cases. Right now I don't have any 158 bullets. I do have about 80 rounds left of 180 grain coated lead in front of 13.5 grains of H110 for about 1400 fps. I get them into a 3" group at 100 yards. With 125 grain I get 1.5" spread at 50 yards with 5.5 grains of Trail Boss or 5.5 grains of Titegroup. I have been paying around 7¢ each for the 125's. just ordered 50 lbs of wheel weights. Will get a mold for 158.

Measuring max COL is easy. Cut two 1/4" slits at the top of a 357 case and insert a bullet far enough in so it won't fall out. Then chamber it slowly then extract and measure. I'd like to know what others find.

Mike

 

[Chromedhearts]

No experience with a Henry, but my Marlin in .357 does not like lighter bullets, but standard 158 grains; almost puts 'em in the same hole at 50 yards, and I can hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200 yards all day long. That's with factory sights and 51 year old eyes.

 

[Clovishound]

Measuring max COL is easy. Cut two 1/4" slits at the top of a 357 case and insert a bullet far enough in so it won't fall out. Then chamber it slowly then extract and measure. I'd like to know what others find.

Mike

I played around with mine tonight. I found that it would chamber at around 1.655, but would not feed through the magazine.

My normal target load is a 158 grain Xtreme HP. Loading it at the very bottom of the canelure will give me an OAL of 1.580. That is right at the minimum listed for the 158 grain XTP. I normally load them just a tad shorter at the middle of the canelure. This bullet will have a slightly different profile than the HP I am loading, so I go by the canelure.

I spent a lot of time with my .223 Savage getting the OAL close to the lands without getting too close. With the canelured revolver bullets, I haven't really worried about it, just load to the middle of the canelure. I may try loading a few a little longer and see if it changes the accuracy.

 

[Mikeinkaty]

I played around with mine tonight. I found that it would chamber at around 1.655, but would not feed through the magazine.

My normal target load is a 158 grain Xtreme HP. Loading it at the very bottom of the canelure will give me an OAL of 1.580. That is right at the minimum listed for the 158 grain XTP. I normally load them just a tad shorter at the middle of the canelure. This bullet will have a slightly different profile than the HP I am loading, so I go by the canelure.

I spent a lot of time with my .223 Savage getting the OAL close to the lands without getting too close. With the canelured revolver bullets, I haven't really worried about it, just load to the middle of the canelure. I may try loading a few a little longer and see if it changes the accuracy.

Mine fed fine through the tubular fed at 1.69". Once I get some 158 I'm going to load up a few long. Maybe like 1.65. I'll just do a light LFCD above the lube groove.

 

[Kiwi cop]

The instruction book with my Big Boy .357 says use only 158 gn .38 Special loads unless you seat out to .357 length.

My Big Boy feeds 100 gn CAS loads in .357 cases all day, but even when seated right out in .38 Special cases it does not like to feed from the mag.

 

[Wee Hooker]

I think the others have nailed it. You have a combination of a short bullet in a short case. Not ideal for chamber or twist rate. Go with a 158 gr and seat out to max. You might even scrounge up some 357 brass .
FWIW, I've struggled with finding accurate loads with 125 gr 38 specials in a variety of hand guns at 40'. I doubt any of my "keeper" loads in this range with do the rifles accuracy any justice.

 

[Rule3]

The instruction book with my Big Boy .357 says use only 158 gn .38 Special loads unless you seat out to .357 length.

My Big Boy feeds 100 gn CAS loads in .357 cases all day, but even when seated right out in .38 Special cases it does not like to feed from the mag.

Well our friend from NZ seems to have arrived at the problem solution.

It pays to read the manuals!

https://assets.henryusa.com/uploads/2015/02/Big-Boy-Web-Manual.pdf

Page 8

 

[ArchAngelCD]

First off, it's not a good idea to load .38 Special cases to .357 Magnum pressures. It's a accident waiting to happen if they find their way into a .38 Special gun.

I highly doubt the slightly shorter case is causing the poor accuracy. In my opinion your powder choice us poor. Titegroup is a very fast powder that I would not use in the .357 Magnum especially with light bullets. You should at least be using a medium speed powder like HS-6, Longshot, Power Pistol, AA#5 and the like.

I would be loading a coated 158gr bullet over HS-6 if it were me.

I would get some .357 Magnum cases, they will work better and it's safer than over pressure loading of .38 Special cases. If you can't find any on the Net you can buy 2x boxes of loaded ammo and end up with 100 cases. If that's not possible let me know, I can help.

 

[buck460XVR]

There may be several reasons for the inaccuracy of those loads, the reasons are not important really unless you cannot get accuracy with something else(and that does not seem t be the case). Some powder/projectile combos just don't work in some guns. Could be the short soft lead bullet jumping to the lands is being distorted as it enters the rifling and thus adds to inaccuracy. Higher charge rates may mean more distortion and more inaccuracy. Could be the bullet itself is not sized properly to the bore. Thus higher velocities cause higher inaccuracy. Running powder puff loads with a very fast burning powder like Titegroup is asking for a stuck bullet in a carbine. As has been pointed out, Henry recommends against doing what you are doing, thus there should be no wonder one is not having much success. Work with other projectiles and powders till you find something the gun really likes and then stick with it. I load for several handgun caliber carbines in a variety of calibers. They all shoot best with standard to heavy for caliber bullets.