.38 spl. loads in .357 case?

[Wayne02]

All of my revolvers save 2 are chambered in .357, and the two .38 revolvers I don't shoot that much. I shoot the .357 revolvers frequently as range guns at 25 yards, shooting bullseye paper targets. To date I have been shooting mostly .38 ammo in these revolvers, in part because I had a large stock of .38 commercial ammo to burn through, and because I like the milder recoil of the .38. I do occasionally fire .357 ammo through the guns and of course have to battle the rings in the end of the cylinder bores from the build up left by the .38's. I have recently got back into reloading with an LNL AP press and Hornady dies so I can reload both .38 or .357.

Now that I'm nearing the end of the stock of .38 ammo I need to reload some, but I'm wondering about using the .357 cases to maybe avoid the cleaning issues that come with shooting .38's in a .357 gun.

Can you load .38 level loads using .357 cases?

If so, what things should be considered when doing so? I do have a lockout die on the press for under/over charges as well as a mirror/light set-up to see into the cases.

 

[Wayne02]

All of my revolvers save 2 are chambered in .357, and the two .38 revolvers I don't shoot that much. I shoot the .357 revolvers frequently as range guns at 25 yards, shooting bullseye paper targets. To date I have been shooting mostly .38 ammo in these revolvers, in part because I had a large stock of .38 commercial ammo to burn through, and because I like the milder recoil of the .38. I do occasionally fire .357 ammo through the guns and of course have to battle the rings in the end of the cylinder bores from the build up left by the .38's. I have recently got back into reloading with an LNL AP press and Hornady dies so I can reload both .38 or .357.

Now that I'm nearing the end of the stock of .38 ammo I need to reload some, but I'm wondering about using the .357 cases to maybe avoid the cleaning issues that come with shooting .38's in a .357 gun.

Can you load .38 level loads using .357 cases?

If so, what things should be considered when doing so? I do have a lockout die on the press for under/over charges as well as a mirror/light set-up to see into the cases.

 

[TSQUARED]

Wayne02,
You can easilly make mild loads in 357 Mag cases. There kis a bit more cleanup when using 38 Spceial cases but I have a pre WWII 357 Registered magnum which has been used for any years by my father for bullseye pistol firing mild 38 Spcial loads. It is still one of the most accurate revolvers with 38 Special loads.

 

[danski]

You'll get ".38-loads" in a .357 case by just upping the powder a smidge, i.e., say you're
using Unique and a standard load for .38 158-grain LRN is 4.2 grains. For the .357 case up it to about 4.4 grains to maintain a similar .38 feel.

Case difference is between 1/10th and 1/8th of an inch (I've seen both figures given).

Danski

 

[max]

As has been stated, you can use the longer cases. However, I don't understand this cleaning business. I have been shooting 38 specials in magnum guns for over 30 years. I use the same brush on the cylinder that I clean the barrel with and I have never had a problem.

 

[ADash]

That is actually a very good practice. I have been doing that for many years with excellent results. Besides the cleaning benefit, it should be more accurate, because the "bullet jump" before reaching the barrel will be less.

You also will have an advantage in only inventorying one set of cases instead of 2 sizes. After a number of firings, ALL cases develop cracks at the neck, and are usually discarded. In your case, you can instead trim the the slightly cracked case down to .38 Special length, and then get to use it in your .38 Special gun. (Mild target loads!).

I do the same thing in .44 caliber. I buy only .44 Mag cases for full power AND light loads in my .44 Mag gun, then later trim the slightly cracked cases to .44 Special length, for use in my .44 Special guns. (Mild target loads only!)

When reloading for target shooting, you can use the same amount of powder in the longer cases as you did in the shorter cases, or just a TINY amount more to adjust for the increased empty space. Be VERY careful of this increased amount, especially with "fast" powders like Bullseye!!!

Alan Dash

 

[ADash]

Originally posted by max:
As has been stated, you can use the longer cases. However, I don't understand this cleaning business. I have been shooting 38 specials in magnum guns for over 30 years. I use the same brush on the cylinder that I clean the barrel with and I have never had a problem.

There is no problem as long as you keep shooting .38 Special ammo. However, there will be a build-up of soot at the forward end of the cylinder hole, so later when you drop in a .357 Mag round, it may get stopped by that ring of soot, and the .357 case will jut out the rear end of the cylinder. That may stop you from closing the cylinder! If you FORCE the .357 Mag rounds into that cylinder, there may be pressure problems and ejector problems.

Al Dash

 

[Mark1967]

I was just about to post the same question till this post caught my eye. I looked into the matter from a common scenes point of view. The 357 Magnum was developed in a way that would not allow a 357-mag cartridge to physically fit in the camber of a 38 special. In addition to that, I guess the 357 cylinder and other revolver components were designed tougher, thus allowing the use of powders such as H110. The length difference is about 1/8 inch so the powder volume should not be that big of a deal. This way, one could load a say 158-grain bullet as low as around 600 fps, using Unique, and getting 126 ft-lbs of energy. And then load the same 158-grain bullet at around 1250 fps and getting 548 ft-lbs of energy. Wow, can someone say "VERSITILE". In comparison, a 230 grain 45 ACP bullet fired at a max velocity of around say 900 fps would give 413 ft-lbs of energy and a 185 grain 45 ACP at 1050 fps, 453 ft-lbs. Sorry for all the BLA BLA BLA, but I too was curious if this could be done. Thanks for the replies.

 

[max]

I got out my oldest 357, Security Six I have had since the early 70's, and chambered a number of 357 rounds in it. They slid in slicker than snot. I have fired thousands of 38 specials in that gun and not many magnums.

 

[musicmanbass]

Originally posted by max:
I got out my oldest 357, Security Six I have had since the early 70's, and chambered a number of 357 rounds in it. They slid in slicker than snot. I have fired thousands of 38 specials in that gun and not many magnums.

You probbaly clean your guns regularly, right? Excellent! The issue is not a long-term build up, but going directly to maggies after a crap-ton of specials in the same shooting session. Every time you clean the gun, the problem disappears. However, when you go shooting again and have burned through 250rds of 38 specials, then drop in the 357s and have a go you have the possibility of fouling in the area of the cylinder thath the 38 cases left exposed.

 

[Wayne02]

Thanks for the replies. I notice that the .38 and .38+p call for small pistol primers and the .357 magnum calls for small pistol magnum primers.

Using as an example a load with the hornady 158gr xtp and universal powder I find:

.38 4.4gr. small pistol primer

.38+p 4.7gr. small pistol primer

.357 magnum 6.3gr small pistol magnum primer

Same powder yet one calls for the magnum primer. What is the dynamic that requires a magnum primer, simply the increased powder fill in the .357?

I'm familiar with .223 primers where I'm given to understand the difference between a small rifle primer and a small rifle magnum primer has more to do with a thicker cup on the magnum then any sort of hotter flame. This ostensibly to help prevent potential slamfires in the semi-auto rifles (AR).

Is the same true for magnum pistol primers as far as having a thicker cup or is it the same cup hotter flame or? How do they differ from the regular small pistol primers?

Thanks
Wayne

 

[Wayne02]

Originally posted by musicmanbass:
However, when you go shooting again and have burned through 250rds of 38 specials, then drop in the 357s and have a go you have the possibility of fouling in the area of the cylinder thath the 38 cases left exposed.

Yep, that would be what I do, and as pointed out there is a bit of sticktion with .357 at that point.

 

[stang68]

Last week I loaded 50 .357 cases with 4.5 gr. of Unique under a 158 gr lswc, which is the top load for .38+p according to Alliant. When I went to the range I was pleasantly surprised at how well they performed in both my Model 19 and Model 66. As for as shooting .38's in the .357, if I plan on shooting both I'll shoot the .357's first and the .38's last. I always use Winchester small pistol primers (not magnum) for both .38's and .357's as per the Lee Reloading Manual.

 

[Paul5388]

Wayne,

Small rifle magnum primers are hotter than small rifle primers, if you mean have more energy by being hot.

A rifle primer has a thicker cup than a pistol primer and as far as I know, the cup is the same on all pistol primers.

I see no earthly reason for a magnum primer with Universal.

 

[Wayne02]

Originally posted by Paul5388:
Wayne,

Small rifle magnum primers are hotter than small rifle primers, if you mean have more energy by being hot.

A rifle primer has a thicker cup than a pistol primer and as far as I know, the cup is the same on all pistol primers.

I see no earthly reason for a magnum primer with Universal.

Ok thanks. I got that data from the little Hodgdon manual, although my Lee mondern reloading manual does not differentiate primers between the two cartridges.

 

[musicmanbass]

That's one shortcoming of the Lee manual... there's just so much there that they can't get too specific for each load. For loads using H110/W296 and maybe anotehr slow mag powder or two, then magnum primers may be required for complete and consistent ignition and burning. Whenever switching from standard to mag primers, back down to the starting load and work your way up slowly again.

H110/W296 is a little different, you can't drop 10% below max, as you usually end up with big-time ignition problems. It even says right on the jug "do not reduce by more than 3%" or something like that, so you pretty much just have to load up and go. I only shoot my H110/W296 loads out of heavy framed pistols, and rifles.

All of that info is missing from the Lee manual. I started out with only that manual for about a year, and as I kept reading about stuff here and on otehr forums, I realized that while the Lee manual is a great primer for learning to load, it isn't the best for load data. I now use that manual for ideas, but I check with at least two otehr published manuals before loading anything new.

 

[stang68]

For what it's worth, on page 205 of Lee's Modern Reloading (2nd Edition) he says to use standard primers for all powders except Winchester 296 use magnum primers. He doesn't explain why.

 

[Skip Sackett]

The reason is that it is a spherical powder and it just happens to be notoriously hard to get going. When it does though, you usually have a nice fireball!

The original poster asked about loads for a 38spl load in 357mag cases.

When I started shooting PPC there were folks that shot a M686 6" just like me. The only thing though, their loads were all in 357mag cases, same loading though. They never had any problems but we weren't trying to make embarrassingly light loads either.

Many things play into this determination. A load that doesn't leave the primer hole exposed would seem to be a good thing to me.

My loads are 3.5gr of Bullseye under a 158gr + bullet.

Nowadays that load in a 38spl case is a maximum for standard loads.

The loads in the 357mag cases are rumored to be more accurate. Bullet jump, I guess.

 

[Wayne02]

Originally posted by musicmanbass:
That's one shortcoming of the Lee manual... there's just so much there that they can't get too specific for each load. For loads using H110/W296 and maybe anotehr slow mag powder or two, then magnum primers may be required for complete and consistent ignition and burning. Whenever switching from standard to mag primers, back down to the starting load and work your way up slowly again.

H110/W296 is a little different, you can't drop 10% below max, as you usually end up with big-time ignition problems. It even says right on the jug "do not reduce by more than 3%" or something like that, so you pretty much just have to load up and go. I only shoot my H110/W296 loads out of heavy framed pistols, and rifles.

All of that info is missing from the Lee manual. I started out with only that manual for about a year, and as I kept reading about stuff here and on otehr forums, I realized that while the Lee manual is a great primer for learning to load, it isn't the best for load data. I now use that manual for ideas, but I check with at least two otehr published manuals before loading anything new.

Ok, 296 is the only powder I use when load 357 so I'll use the magnum primers for those and regular primers for the 38 loads in the 357 brass.