38 Spl+P Chronograph Data

[38SPL HV]

Been enjoying my new chronograph. Here are five 38 Spl +P loads which I chronographed recently for informational purposes only.

Firearm used in all tests - Ruger 4 5/8 inch Blackhawk
(All 10 shot strings)

38 Spl +P
158 gr Missouri cast SWC (12 bnh)
Load - 5.2 grs Alliant Unique
CCI 500 primer
OAL 1.455”
Hi 989
Lo 951
Avg 968
ES 38
SD 10

38 Spl +P
158 gr Missouri cast SWC (12 bnh)
Load - 5.4 grs Alliant BE-86
Fed 100 primer
OAL 1.440”
Hi 986
Lo 946
Avg 963
ES 40
SD 14

38 Spl +P
158 gr Missouri cast SWC (12 bnh)
Load - 5.3 grs VV N340
CCI 500 primer
OAL 1.440”
Hi 968
Lo 920
Avg 941
ES 48
SD 15

38 Spl +P
158 gr Hornady SWC
Load - 6.3 grs Accurate #5
CCI 550
OAL 1.455”
Hi 974
Lo 922
Avg 951
ES 52
SD 14

38 Spl +P
158 gr Speer LSWCHP
Load - 4.7 grs W231
CCI 550
OAL 1.440”
Hi 953
Lo 917
Avg 937
ES 36
SD 9

These are my loads for use in my revolver only. Always refer to current published load data, it’s instructions and all applicable information first before reloading. I used load data from Speer, Lyman and Handloader Magazine.

 

[pantannojack]

Thank you for the data. I do that too.

 

[Homie]

Thanks for the updated info.
Any comments on leading, cleanliness, etc?

 

[scooter123]

Just something to consider. If you load a 357 Magnum case for use in a 357 Magnum revolver you have the full range from 38 Spl Starting to the Maximum for 357 Magnum. This yields a much wider range of potential loads than if you restrict yourself to 38 +P.

I have a load that I call a "light Magnum" I worked up for my 2.5 inch model 19 that gets the bullet moving to 1050 fps with a relatively light recoil and no risk of damage to the forcing cone. Per the Vihtavouri table for 3N37 this load is neither a 38 spl. or a 357 Magnum, it actually falls in that undocumented gray area between the two. Now some may say that is unsafe but think about this, the pressure produced is less than that for 357 Magnum so it's not over pressure, it's simply a load in a pressure region that falls between 38 spl. and 357 Magnum.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I think this validates the 158gr LSWC as the best bullet for 38spl. It's almost impossible to break 1k/fps in anything shorter than a 6" barrel even at +P pressures.

 

[38SPL HV]

Just something to consider. If you load a 357 Magnum case for use in a 357 Magnum revolver you have the full range from 38 Spl Starting to the Maximum for 357 Magnum. This yields a much wider range of potential loads than if you restrict yourself to 38 +P.

Who says I’m restricting myself to 38 Spl +P? I don’t and have numerous 357 Magnum loads from mid range to magnum velocities. A 357 Magnum in my opinion is one of the most versatile handguns made; able to shot 38 Spl,, 38 Spl +P, 38-44 and a wide range of 357 Magnum loads as mentioned. If I had only one gun to choose, yes, give me a 357 Magnum because of its vast versatility.

 

[alwslate]

5.1 grs of W231 with a mag or SR primer and a cast 158 gr SWC chronos at 1003 fps out of my 4" S&W model 10-5 and is maybe just barely +P according to Lyman. Wincester's 4.7 gr so called +P load is listed by them at around a whopping 17,100 psi. Way short of the 20,000 psi limit.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

5.1 grs of W231 with a mag or SR primer and a cast 158 gr SWC chronos at 1003 fps out of my 4" S&W model 10-5 and is maybe just barely +P according to Lyman. Wincester's 4.7 gr so called +P load is listed by them at around a whopping 17,100 psi. Way short of the 20,000 psi limit.

I'm fairly sure they keep their lead bullet data to lower pressures to prevent leading. (which I think should not be done) The same goes for their .357 158gr LSWC bullet data using HS-6. (max. only 15,500 CUP) Ridiculous!

 

[stansdds]

The low pressure, lead bullet loads in some manuals is likely due to the use of swaged lead bullets, not cast lead. The soft, swaged lead cannot be pushed very fast before it starts to deposit lead in the barrel, most cast lead bullets are harder and can withstand higher pressures and velocities. Another issue might be liability, with so many revolvers from the early 20th century still in use, companies publishing reloading data do not want to be responsible for a published load being dangerous in an old firearm.

 

[bmcgilvray]

Great stuff 38SPL HV and a new powder I've never heard of that yields good performance, Alliant BE-86!

The older 1970s Lyman manual have a published max load using 2400 that will certainly push 158 grain bullets over 1000 fps from a 2-inch barrel.

Not advising to use it. Just saying.

There's a lot early-mid 20th century 9mm Luger automatics out there too, some of weak design, but that doesn't seem to hold back 9mm factory ammunition or handload development.

I'd prefer to take my chances with a early 20th century .38 Special revolver of quality make than an early 20th century 9mm Luger automatic if pressed by emergency needs.

I think it became in vogue to no longer push .38 Special handguns and loads in favor of the 9mm pistols they're hawking today.

 

[rockquarry]

Great stuff 38SPL HV and a new powder I've never heard of that yields good performance, Alliant BE-86!

The older 1970s Lyman manual have a published max load using 2400 that will certainly push 158 grain bullets over 1000 fps from a 2-inch barrel.

Not advising to use it. Just saying.

There's a lot early-mid 20th century 9mm Luger automatics out there too, some of weak design, but that doesn't seem to hold back 9mm factory ammunition or handload development.

I'd prefer to take my chances with a early 20th century .38 Special revolver of quality make than an early 20th century 9mm Luger automatic if pressed by emergency needs.

I think it became in vogue to no longer push .38 Special handguns and loads in favor of the 9mm pistols they're hawking today.

You're certainly right with regard to the .38 Special vs. 9mm Luger, but it's doubtful the vast majority of newschoolers, upgraders, and YouTubers are going to take up revolver shooting. Go to any range and see what handguns people are shooting.

At a private gun club I've belonged to for many years, I saw a revolver shooter about six months ago - the only revolver shooter I've ever seen there . He was shooting up very close, 7 or 10 yards with a snubnose revolver of some sort, presumably a .38.

 

[alwslate]

I'm fairly sure they keep their lead bullet data to lower pressures to prevent leading. (which I think should not be done) The same goes for their .357 158gr LSWC bullet data using HS-6. (max. only 15,500 CUP) Ridiculous!

You're right. I think most of their lead bullet data is most likely with their own brand of swaged bullets.

 

[38SPL HV]

5.1 grs of W231 with a mag or SR primer and a cast 158 gr SWC chronos at 1003 fps out of my 4" S&W model 10-5 and is maybe just barely +P according to Lyman. Wincester's 4.7 gr so called +P load is listed by them at around a whopping 17,100 psi. Way short of the 20,000 psi limit.

… I’ve seen chronograph data from our friend Outpost75 on Castboolits showing Winchester’s 38-44 vintage ammo (with large primers) making 993 fps from a 4 inch S&W Heavy Duty. Your 5.1 grs W231 load sounds like a darn good duplicate of that 38-44 in your revolver.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

It isn't just about leading. You will hit your head up against the 20k/psi mark for +P ammo before you hit 1k/fps. I'm sure you can post a homebrew recipe that breaks the mark but I am betting you haven't pressure tested it. Hodgdon data (for example) is generated using a 7.7" barrel and they list exactly one load over 1k/fps even though several of them reach SAAMI max pressure.

 

[rockquarry]

I've mentioned this on here before, but there are two related articles in HANDLOADER magazines (#26, July 1970 -"Duplicating Hot Factory .38s" and #27, September 1970 - "Pressures of Those Hot .38s"). I know many save copies of HANDLOADER and RIFLE, so some of you may have these magazines.

I haven't read them in a good while, but these are excellent articles, certainly among the few very best gun/ handloading articles I've read since I began handloading in 1965. Lee Jurras, the Super Vel guy was a contributor to the articles and did the pressure testing in his shop.

This was all done in pre +P days with less sophisticated pressure measuring equipment than what is currently available. As a result, the perspectives on all this are much different than today. Still, quite interesting reading about the hot factory .38 loads back then and the efforts to duplicate such loads.

Thse articles were written by Neal Knox and George Nonte. Neal Knox probably did more editing than writing, but any Neal Knox article is worth reading. He was editor of HANDLOADER and RIFLE at the time. George Nonte was a prolific gun writer but few of his articles could be called memorable. These HANDLOADER pieces were the exceptions.

 

[alwslate]

Hodgdon data is best ignored, especially when it's for the .38 sp. Some very reliable fairly recent pressure tested data for the .38 spl is available in Handloader magazine articles by Brian Pearce. 1,000 + velocities with a 158 gr cast SWC are easily attained with 6.0 grs of Longshot or Power Pistol without exceedind +P limits in a 4" barreled revolver. My load at 1,003 fps was chronographed by me from my 4" 10-5 with 5.1 grs of 231 which is about top of std pressure according to Lyman.

 

[Goldstar225]

My +P .38 load is 6.0 of power pistol with a cast 158 LSWC. Thats a max charge from Alliants data which they rate at 1,037 FPS. Out of my 4" model 15 it chronographed at 1,050 FPS.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

 

[ArchAngelCD]

WARNING: This load is above the "current" max load listed in most manuals. I do have information this load is just below the 20,000 PSI +P max. @ 19,800 PSI. Use this load at your own risk.

My favorite .38 Special +P load is a 158gr LSWC bullet over 7.0gr HS-6 with a CCI-550 primer. This is also my replica FBI Load when used with a Hornady LSWC-HP bullet. That load is very accurate for me with an AV of 927fps from a 4" M686 and 888.9fps from a 1.875" M642. Note, my 4" M686 seems to have a slow barrel. The SD is only 12...

 

[gwpercle]

38SPCL HV ,
Thanks for posting the data . I don't have access to a chrono and appreciate seeing the numbers .
Funny ... In 1967 I used the brand new Speer #8 manual to work up a load of 5.2 grs Unique w/ 158 gr. cast SWC , in a 38 special case ... it wasn't even a maximum load then ... now it's a +P ... what happened !
but my only handgun was a Ruger Blackhawk 357 Magnum and it could handle it .
I just got some Acc #5 powder and your numbers will be a big help working up a accurate load in the BH .
Thanks again
Gary

 

[ddixie884]

Cool............