38 Super Conversion

[jdlii]

Thank you for saving me from frustration and preventing me from modifying a pre Series 70, Colt .38 Super!

 

[Funflyer]

You guys are spelling it wrong. It's 38 Superb.

 

[Buford57]

Great set up. I have an EAA Witness with complete slide assemblies in .38 Super, .45 ACP and .22LR. I'm thinking the Super set up in a shoulder rig might be the ticket for a long road trip I have coming up.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

DW-PM9 -vs- SIG-38S, 1911 barrel differences

The 38 Super barrel I bought from CDNN has a W/N ramp cut, but the PM-9 has the C/P frame cut.
My PM-9 is several years old so perhaps DW has changed to the W/N frame cut?
If not, I'd sure be interested in a photo of the modification you had done to the SIG 38S barrel ramp for it to work on the PM-9 frame.

Well, I hope you're proud of yourself, you made me take the pictures that I normally take when I'm doing a project but didn't.

Dan Wesson is using the fully supported & ramped (Wilson/Nowlin style) barrels currently, as is the SIG**, however there are several points on the assembly that are different & needed to be modified/profiled for the SIG barrel to fit.

Points "B" & "C" need to be filed back ~.028", from the chamber's face, which is almost to Point "A"** (which serves as a loaded cartridge indicator on the SIG). The corresponding opposite side of the chamber face also has to be recessed back by the same amount also.

Points "E" on the lower lug need to be profiled/contoured to match the shape of the DW's.

Point "F", where it contacts the frame, needs to have ~.005" removed to lower the barrel & allow it to not contact the inside top of the slide.

Point "D" needs to have ~.003" removed from the hood to fit & clearance the slide properly, as well as a little profiling.

(The SIG barrel in the picture is an unaltered barrel. I bought two barrels from SIG (such a good deal, how could I not) & it's the second one.

In retrospect the easy way would have been to pay DW $199 for their 38 Super barrel, but what fun would that be.

**- clarification & corrections are in post #28 below.
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[garryj]

Well, I hope you're proud of yourself, you made take the pictures I normally take when I'm actually doing the project.

Dan Wesson is using the fully supported & ramped (Wilson/Nowlin style) barrels currently, as is SIG, however there are several points on the assembly that are different & needed to be modified/profiled for the SIG barrel to fit.

Points "B" & "C" need to be filed back ~.028", from the chamber's face, to Point "A" (which serves as a loaded cartridge indicator on the SIG). The corresponding opposite side of the chamber face also has to be recessed back by the same amount also.

Points "E" on the lower lug needs to be profiled to match the shape of the DW's.

Point "F", where it contacts the frame, needs to have ~.005" removed to lower the barrel & allow it to not contact the inside top of the slide.

Point "D" needs to have ~.003" removed from the hood to fit & clearance the slide properly, as well as a little profiling.

(The SIG barrel in the picture is an unaltered barrel. I bought two barrels from SIG (such a good deal, how could I not) & it's the second one.

In retrospect the easy way would have been to pay DW $199 for their 38 Super barrel, but what fun would that be.

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Bluedot37 that ramp on your Dan Wesson barrel is a Clark /Para cut ramp. See the difference here:http://schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Identify Your Barrel Ramp.pdf. If the Sig barrel works in your Pointman frame, you have figured how to modify a Wilson/Nowlin ramped barrel to work in a Clark/Para frame and are very lucky indeed.
I have a Dan Wesson Vigil CCO bought about 15 months ago and it also has a Clark/Para ramp.

Garry

 

[Rock185]

BLUEDOT, Just as garryj indicates, the DW barrel you show is not a W/N ramp, it is a C/P ramp just like on my older PM-9. That you were able to get the SIG barrel with W/N ramp to fit and Function rather amazes me. I've read that since the barrels with the C/P ramp have more material, they can be machined back to duplicate the W/N cut. But this is the first I'm aware of anyone anywhere using a W/N type barrel in a C/P cut frame. No offense, but I wonder how durable such a combination could be? It would appear the squared off portion of the W/N ramp would impact against the rounded C/P frame cut, that is profiled to stop the rearward movement of the rounded C/P ramped barrel. Thus damaging the frame more with each shot fired, unless the barrel link is actually being used to stop the rearward movement of the barrel? Thank you for the added photos and information, but I admit I am lost on this one.

 

[CH4]

I bought a 9mm DW Specialist with the intention of fitting it with a .38s barrel. I simply bought a Kart .38s bbl and after minimal fitting I had H & M black nitride it for me. Boy, what a sweet shooting rig!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

But this is the first I'm aware of anyone anywhere using a W/N type barrel in a C/P cut frame.
It would appear the squared off portion of the W/N ramp would impact against the rounded C/P frame cut, that is profiled to stop the rearward movement of the rounded C/P ramped barrel.

Thanks guys for the terminology on the lower lug, I was only aware of the W/N name but saw the obvious differences.

First off, there is no "squared off face" on the modified SIG's W/N lower lug anymore. As I stated I contoured the corners where the "E" arrows point to.

Basically imagine the shape/contour that the lug would be if it was the (full) C/P rounded shape & only remove the amount from the square corners to obtain that shape/contour. A majority of the curved/contoured lug still ends up contacting the frame. Only a small portion of the apex is absent.

As you profile the corners you can see how much needs to be removed by installing the barrel only into frame, & the lug's frame channel, and seeing where the lower edge of the barrel's ramp aligns with where it meets the frame's ramp cut.

Remove just enough to match the same point that the factory barrel's lower ramp aligns to.

I've only got about (100) 38 Super +P handloads thru it but it's shot & functioned perfectly & there are no marks or indications in the frame's lug channel (where the barrel's lower lug sits & contacts it) of any problems, but I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

One clarification to my post #24 above, Points "B" & "C" were filed back ~.028" but not fully to Point "A". About .022" of the notch of the loaded cartridge indicator still remains.

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PS: Since I first posted this I've shot 100s, probably over 1000, of full power 38 Super +P loads thru this configuration testing different bullet/powder combination without any issues.

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[Funflyer]

My Ruger SR1911 10mm converted to 38 Superb.

 

[dsf]

I have always believed that having caliber conversion capability is a good thing, even though you may never use it. In addition to my 4-caliber 1911, I also have the large frame EAA Witness set up to use .45 Auto, 9x19, and .38 Super/9x23 Win. Most of the time it shoots 9x19. If I had a pistol chambered for .40 S&W (I don't), I would still want to get a .357 Sig barrel for it, even though I care nothing about the .357 Sig.

Picking up an EAA "small frame" in 41AE put me on the road to conversions. I was gifted about 600 rounds of 41AE ammo when I bought the thing but considering how expensive the stuff is bought a 9mm barrel from Numrich and use that instead. Added a 22lr conversion to it. Then last year or so bought an EAA Witness in 9mm with a 22 lr conversion. Added 45 ACP and 40 S&W. I'd like to add a 10mm longslide, but darn EAA charges alot for them.

Not to go way off topic, but I have a Browning MKIII in 40 S&W and picked up an Olympic Arms MkIII barrel in 357 Sig. Dropped in just fine. The heavier MKIII fame can handle the Sig, while the BHP frame is a tad too light.