.38 Top Break Saved...

[dnonac]

I'm a hands-on guy and can't keep my hands off old broken stuff. Picked up this old .38 Top Break 2nd Model for cheap at a gun show recently....knowing it had problems but not knowing what was broken. Serial 46800....would have had it shipped around 1882 I think. This one was destined to be a wall hanger....or worse!

After removing the sideplate.......took some rather firm taps with a 1x2 on the grip frame.......I spotted what looked like a broken flat spring on the hand there in the gunk. You can see it in the first picture. The tiny spring is driven into that slot at the top of the hand. I found one (hand and spring) at Numrich and ordered it Monday....and it got here today.
Dave Chicoine wrote a great article about disassembly on these old guns and I bought a copy of it when I couldn't figure out how to remove the trigger guard. It saved my bacon. Thanks Dave.

Replaced the hand and spring this afternoon and reassembled. Lo and behold.....the cylinder rotates, locks up and the action feels pretty darn good. Not bad for a 129 year old gun. Probably would even fire.....maybe I'll try it if I can find some .38 S&W's.

She's rough looking on the outside but it just reflects the age and abuse over the years. Really cool design. I like it.
Craig.....

Hand spring broken and gunks I had to clean out.

 

[TACC1]

If you do take that rascal to the range, will you please post results.
I really like my top-breaks, and have shot them all. Just haven't gotten as far as the 38's yet.
Thanks for posting, TACC1.

 

[Ken NC]

Wow, great photos, great looking gun, and I really admire how you figured out and fixed the problem. I had a similar top-break apart, and re-assembly was no small task (even with the Chicone article). Will you shoot it, and with what? I haven't shot mine yet, but am contemplating some mild hand loads.

Here is the thread on mine: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/176385-lock-work-photos.html

Great job thank you for posting!

 

[28Shooter]

Gunk was an understatement. Congratulations on the repair, looks like a nice find.

 

[dnonac]

Wow, great photos, great looking gun, and I really admire how you figured out and fixed the problem. I had a similar top-break apart, and re-assembly was no small task (even with the Chicone article). Will you shoot it, and with what? I haven't shot mine yet, but am contemplating some mild hand loads.

Here is the thread on mine: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/176385-lock-work-photos.html

Great job thank you for posting!

TACC1...
Thanks. I'll be sure and report when I go to the range.

Ken...your pics are great. I finally got mine cleaned out but it took some serious scrubbing. I don't have a clue yet what I'll shoot in it. I haven't looked around to see if they produce anything today that would work. Handloading may be the way to go. Let me know what you do.

 

[opoefc]

Modern .38 S&W ammo., made in the USA, is loaded to pressures that are safe in these older black powder guns, assuming the gun is mechanicaly OK and the cylinder is correctly times to line up with the barrel. I shoot my .38DAs and Safety Hammerless guns with modern ammo. with no problems. Ed.

 

[oberon]

That revolver is a little better in appearance than my old (~1888) 2nd model. I have shot mine with no problem at all,with modern U.S.mfg. ammo.
I checked out the link with the lockwork photos, and I will be gettin' after it in the future. I'm sure it is packed with crud.

 

[Hondo44]

Shoot all my top breaks. They're fun and very accurate. Old world craftsmanship at its best.

 

[dnonac]

Shoot all my top breaks. They're fun and very accurate. Old world craftsmanship at its best.

I think that old world craftsmanship is what I like most. It just amazes me to think that these guys could build these finely machined guns.......before robotics, before computers, before cars and airplanes, etc.

I was sitting here last night holding it and trying to visualize the first purchaser and what he might want it for. And sometimes they talk....if only through records and letters and other provenance that you might find.

 

[raildog]

Just read your comments. I have just found a 38 break top at gun show. Needs alittle work. You have me ready to try to fix mine. I really enjoy these little guns. Hope all works out.

 

[dnonac]

Just read your comments. I have just found a 38 break top at gun show. Needs alittle work. You have me ready to try to fix mine. I really enjoy these little guns. Hope all works out.

Just take your time and you'll be fine. I find it really helps me if I take several photos during dissassembly on a gun that I'm not familiar with. I can always go back and check the pics to see how things fit together if I get lost.

 

[twaits]

Excellent gun! I really love those early ones with the double cylinder stops. I'd love to have one to compliment my DA Frontier .44

 

[nutsforsmiths]

Craig, I have the same model with serial # 46230 and it was shipped in April of 1882, so I'm sure your are right about the date.

 

[dnonac]

Craig, I have the same model with serial # 46230 and it was shipped in April of 1882, so I'm sure your are right about the date.

Thanks for the confirmation. I was wondering if anyone had any with a close number to mine. There is a big gap in the database for that series with not many listed.
Craig...

 

[Ken NC]

Apologies for the late answer on what I shoot. I have an early safety hammerless in 38 S&W, from about 1910. Had a gunsmith check it out, he said was safe with modern factory loads, and I shot that with no problem. Haven't gotten around to shooting my nickel "hammered" 38 top break, nor have I gotten around to the hand loads. Always something..... Hope to work my way "back" to shooting this old fella: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/153417-38-single-action-2d-model.html
The factory loads I got were copper jacketed and I have heard they accelerate wear to the old barrels, so I will be going to lead....

 

[Henpecked]

Was this made in a .32 sn# 12369. Any info will help. Henpecked.....

 

[caphero]

Iver Johnson Tip Up

Gentlemen, I am new to the forum and just purchased an Iver Johnson in .38S&W. Gentleman I bought it from did some research and apparently it's a 1906 model. He thought it was a black powder only weapon but the ammo that came with it is a centerfire cartridge. It times well and locks up tight and I think it would handle modern ammo. What are some of your thoughts on this?

Thanks

 

[Göring's S&W]

He thought it was a black powder only weapon but the ammo that came with it is a centerfire cartridge.

Blackpowder and centerfire have been together for a long time. It doesn't have to be rimfire to be blackpowder.

It times well and locks up tight and I think it would handle modern ammo. What are some of your thoughts on this?

Iver Johnsons are not as well made as S&W, so I wouldn't shoot it very often it at all. If it looks good and functions, its worth something, if it wears out from shooting, its not worth fixing. I don't shoot any of my generic revolvers (no offense meant).

OP,

Great gun and great work. Its obviously an antique so you got a deal even after the parts.

 

[dogngun]

Gentlemen, I am new to the forum and just purchased an Iver Johnson in .38S&W. Gentleman I bought it from did some research and apparently it's a 1906 model. He thought it was a black powder only weapon but the ammo that came with it is a centerfire cartridge. It times well and locks up tight and I think it would handle modern ammo. What are some of your thoughts on this?

Thanks

RE: Iver Johnsons- Remove the grips, very carefully...if the hammer spring is flat, it is a BP revoler...if coiled, it was designed for smokeless and should be fine with modern ammo. I HAVE sparingly used modern ammo in BP cartridge top breaks, including in my 1898 IJ Safety Hammer, but I would not do so often. It is a strain on the parts and may even stretch the frame over time-the smokeless frames and parts are heavier and thicker. Shoot it once or twice, and retire it-it deserves a little rest after all this time.

mark

 

[caphero]

Thanks for the input, I'll check the spring and go from there.