.38 wadcutter load

[STORMINORMAN]

Berrys suggests their plated wadcutters are good for 1250 fps...

They used to advise an 800 fps minimum, but moved that recommendation even higher, I believe...?

Perhaps theirs are ones to consider?

Cheers!

 

[Paul in Nevada]

This was 3.2 American Select.

Hornady lists that as a max load for 750fps. Alliant doesn't list that powder at all. Which bullet were you using? Where did you get the load data? American Select should work since it's close to Bullseye in burn rate but at a lower charge. Personally, I have always used 231 which is quite a bit slower. Maybe a slower powder gives a softer start?

Well, my concern has always been "what is TOO hot?"

Look at 4barrel's post. He didn't think he was loading too hot - but the skirts blew off anyway. Lucky for him they stayed in the brass rather than lodging in the barrel.

All it takes is just a touch too much powder, or a flaw in the bullet casting, or even an alloy that turns out to be too soft.

Like I said, FOR ME, the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

I'm not trying to be contentious, but your concerns apply to reloading in general. I do see your point though, and 4barrel's experience supports a cautious approach. I would just hate to turn people off to HBWC's since they have worked so well for me over the years. Like anything else, do a lot of reading before you start throwing powder. In 4barrel's case, it sounds like he started with an absolute max charge with a powder not recommended by the manufacturer but that's an assumption on my part.

 

[BC38]

I'm not trying to be contentious, but your concerns apply to reloading in general. I do see your point though, and 4barrel's experience supports a cautious approach. I would just hate to turn people off to HBWC's since they have worked so well for me over the years. Like anything else, do a lot of reading before you start throwing powder. In 4barrel's case, it sounds like he started with an absolute max charge with a powder not recommended by the manufacturer but that's an assumption on my part.

Yeah, but a couple of tenths of a grain of extra powder (variation in measure) isn't going to cause the problem of a partially obstructed barrel with any other kind of bullets.

Like I said in an earlier post YMMV - you know what that stands for, right?

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from using the HBWC either - just saying why I don't use them.

As for your assumptions, we all make them and I think we all know what they say about what "assume" does - right?

 

[Nevada Ed]

…great thread you all! My first reloads nearly 50 yrs ago used 2.7 grs behind Speer or Remington 148 gr HBWC. Later I used 3.5 grs Bullesye behind generic cast 148 gr DEWC for an all round load - I heard it referred to as a "Full Wadcutter."

I need to replicate the Full Wadcutter using W231…Bullseye is nearly impossible to find nowadays (Guess Alliant puts its commercial customers first…I guess it's right business practice and best return for their investors but heck, can't they trickle out some classic powders to us old reloaders?)

With the Speer HBwc bullet, 2.7 grs of Bullesye is my most accurate powder and load for my M49 snub nose.

The 148 BBwc with a max load of 3.5 Bullseye gets 782fps, for a full 38 standard loading.
Trail Boss and w231 are the best powders for accuracy with a starting load in my snub nose revolver.

You can push BBwc 148 gr lead target loads but there is a reason the 148 HBwc soft lead bullets are kept at 800fps or lower........ per post #56.

 

[pasound]

Everyone - thanks for the wonderful information. Result is my sketchy reloading notes from the 80's and my memory on loading HBWC's and FBWC's, and now Berry's DEWC's still holds true. I have Bullseye and 231 in enough quantity to keep shooting them for a long time.

 

[pasound]

Some of my favorite wadcutter loads. Left are Alberts 146gr hydra-shoks, their number 1601. W231 load. Guessing they had an arrangement to use the design and name, paying Winchester(?) Federal(?) for the name and design. $5.90 a box of 100 in about 1983... Right are modern Hornady 148gr HBWC, also with W231. I will not post the loads - work in my guns, not interested in spreading rumors.

If anyone ever sees some of the green Alberts boxes at a gun show or old LGS, buy them and contact me. I will be forever grateful.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I managed this bench group at 25 yards a few years ago using 700x with a friend's model 19-4. I don't really like it but It looks new and nickel 6'' and shoots like a target gun. He refuses to sell the gun but he doesn't shoot it. Using an H&G 50 mold I like American Select 3.2-3.8 with a wheel gun. It doesn't do better than Bullseye but it's cleaner. Berry's bullets makes a plated 148 hbwc that's accurate. To me Star and 3D made the better 148 hbwc. They measure .358 with a thin grease groove in the middle. Zero makes a good one. Remington makes a messy one that's oversize and soft.<.361>. When I size then to .358 for one of my auto's they distort a bit. I got a couple pair of new glasses yesterday so maybe I can pick up a little.

Ah;
the good old days when you could get Star and Speer soft lead 148 gr bullets for target practice.

For those of us that don't cast bullets, we just have to buy "Sloppy" seconds, or worse, to shoot.

Thanks for all the great post, gentlemen.

 

[Huskerguy]

I have a SAECO 52, 148 grain WC I started working loads up for. I shoot in a men's league and wanted something for a revolver that was accurate and low recoil that could knock some plates down. I tried several powders including W231, CFE and Titegroup. I landed at 2.7 grains of TG and if I do my part, it can make one ragged hole. I am definitely the weak link in the entire process.

 

[Jebus35745]

Kinda late to the discussion, have a few thousand 148 gr HBWC and load with 3.0 gr 231. Using it for years. It was enough to reliably cycle the model 52 I had and is great for the Gold Cup mid range. Great load for the double action league we shoot every year at the club with revolvers. It's an 8 week league, lots of fun.

Can't imagine the small percent on skirts that separated from use of HBWC's that I wouldn't use them. There has to be millions shot each year. I'm almost to the point of reloading only HBWC's exclusively for all my 38's and 357's. Same with the 32's I load, seems the HBWC is the most accurate. Larry

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Kinda late to the discussion, have a few thousand 148 gr HBWC and load with 3.0 gr 231. Using it for years. It was enough to reliably cycle the model 52 I had and is great for the Gold Cup mid range. Great load for the double action league we shoot every year at the club with revolvers. It's an 8 week league, lots of fun.

Can't imagine the small percent on skirts that separated from use of HBWC's that I wouldn't use them. There has to be millions shot each year. I'm almost to the point of reloading only HBWC's exclusively for all my 38's and 357's. Same with the 32's I load, seems the HBWC is the most accurate. Larry

I also like the HBWC bullet. My load is slightly different, it's 3.2gr W231. With a DEWC I bump the charge up to 3.4gr W231.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Kinda late to the discussion, have a few thousand 148 gr HBWC and load with 3.0 gr 231. Using it for years. It was enough to reliably cycle the model 52 I had and is great for the Gold Cup mid range. Great load for the double action league we shoot every year at the club with revolvers. It's an 8 week league, lots of fun.

Can't imagine the small percent on skirts that separated from use of HBWC's that I wouldn't use them. There has to be millions shot each year. I'm almost to the point of reloading only HBWC's exclusively for all my 38's and 357's. Same with the 32's I load, seems the HBWC is the most accurate. Larry

u

At typical wadcutter velocities, would not the plated HBWC wadcutters not virtually insure no skirts being separated... Should accuracy suffer?

Cheers!

P.S. My Summers coated wadcutters seem to make very round, easily scored target loads.

 

[4barrel]

I still shoot hbwc's. I was running them hot 1/2 grain more at a time to find out what they would stand with different powders and when the grouping started going away. I have plated but they aren't as accurate in our tests.<,wheel guns.>We tested Star -3D-and Remington. Remington's were the only ones that came apart and that was with American Select going too fast. <didn't have any Hornady> None of the bullets stuck in the barrel. One end stays in the case when they separate. Remington's seem to be a little softer. Now I know and won't have to wonder anymore. Hornady actually has a 3.2 load with American Select and a hbwc.

 

[27 Man]

Just curious what load you guys use with those Berry's wadcutters? I have a good supply of Bullseye but am reluctant to use 2.7 grains for fear
of sticking one in the barrel of my model 14.

 

[4barrel]

Just curious what load you guys use with those Berry's wadcutters? I have a good supply of Bullseye but am reluctant to use 2.7 grains for fear
of sticking one in the barrel of my model 14.

I do 3.5 -3.8 with a plated hbwc-or dewc. WHEEL GUN only. Bullseye-700x-Americam Select -231-Titewad or VN340.They all do good in 38 special cases seated flush. If you stick a plated bullet it wont knock out like a jacket or lead bullet.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

"If you stick a plated bullet it wont knock out like a jacket or lead bullet."

Why would that be?.

Cheers!

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Just curious what load you guys use with those Berry's wadcutters? I have a good supply of Bullseye but am reluctant to use 2.7 grains for fear
of sticking one in the barrel of my model 14.

I would suggest (untold?) millions of 148gr wadcutters have been successfully fired using 2.7gr Bullseye over the decades... Believe it's the "holy grail load" for many Model 52 users.

In my personal (and most humble) opinion if there was a problem with that specific load it would have been widely circulated long ago.

I, too, use a bit more, but that's just a personal preference. Don't have a Model 52.

Cheers!

 

[4barrel]

"If you stick a plated bullet it wont knock out like a jacket or lead bullet."

Why would that be?.

Cheers!

When we chronograph a sized .357 148 grain dewc with a charge of 3.2 grains of bullseye the lead dewc was faster than the dewc plated so it must have more drag. I stuck a plated hbwc about 10 years ago and thought I was going to have to send it off to get removed . A plated dewc or hbwc has a lot of surface.

 

[Jebus35745]

When I had a model 52, seemed the 3.0 of 231 cycled the slide without slamming it rearward. I tried some in the 2.7 area and the slide was inconsistent so I settled with the 3.0. Sold the 52 because the 1911 mid range was easier for me to shoot more accurately with the same load. I do have about 500 of the plated HBWC and will use the 3.2 charge.

Shooting the double action revolver league for 8 weeks, 16 matches I never heard of anyone loosing a skirt. HBWC's are the normal bullet used by most the DAO participants. A few are shooting the 100 gr DEWC with very lite loads. I use only 231 in all my pistol loads, Larry

 

[BC38]

From everything I have read the issue with blowing the skirts off the HBWC lead bullets is a result of loading them just a bit too hot for the alloy of the bullet you're loading.

But that is also kinda why I'm a bit gun-shy about even messing with them. The line between reliable function in an M52 and blowing the skirt off the bullet seems like a pretty narrow range to find and one that varies from HBWC bullet to bullet - depending on the bullet alloy.

My M52 is the only 38 special that I own that I would even bother with trying to find a "maximum accuracy" reloading recipe for.

At the same time it is also the one gun I would be the least likely to risk destroying with a partial barrel obstruction (a.k.a. a blown skirt).

Kind of a catch-22 (or catch 52 if you prefer).

 

[Paul in Nevada]

...If you stick a plated bullet it wont knock out like a jacket or lead bullet...

I managed to squib a 124gr Berry's 9mm a few years ago and it tapped out easier than I had feared. Interesting to note that the plating was intact despite being engraved by the rifling with no lead showing.