.380 annd CCW

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crittar

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ok ,i have not fired any 380 but considering there size and weight i thought maybe they would be a decent CCW . but a friend sayed he shot at a drum type barrel and the bullets bounced off, can this be true and if so i wouldnt consider getting one. any have any thoughts?
 
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.380 = 9mm Kurtz= 9mm short
17mm case instead of 19mm on the 9mm Luger.
 
He must not of hit it on center. Really most consider the .380acp as a minimum for self-defense, a lot more than a .22 or .32 but half the energy of 9mm. The new .380s' out there are great for concealed carry, small, lightweight easy to carry and something you'd be more likely to have with you all the time. They do have a sharp recoil in the fixed barrel models like the PPK, and require a firm hold to avoid feed failures.
 
crittar said:
ok ,i have not fired any 380 but considering there size and weight i thought maybe they would be a decent CCW . but a friend sayed he shot at a drum type barrel and the bullets bounced off, can this be true and if so i wouldnt consider getting one. any have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I love these stories (more like "fables") about the supposed anemia of the .380 ACP cartridge. One of the so-called experts at a local gun store had one about someone being shot with a 380 and, when he later was arrested, having the bullets fall out of his jacket when he unzipped it. Blah blah blah. It's a load of hooey.

Out of a short barrel (say around three inches), the typical defense-grade 124-grain hollowpoint 9mm travels at about 1000-1100 fps (give or take). Out of the same length barrel, the typical defense-grade 90-grain hollowpoint .380 ACP travels at about 900-1000 fps. Yes, when you work out the math, accounting for both the difference in velocity and the difference in mass, the 380 has about 50% of the energy of the 9mm, but that doesn't make it comparable to a spitwad, which seems to be the "moral" of these stories.

In my opinion, the pocket-sized 380s are great for concealed carry: small, thin, light, and, in many cases, enjoyable to practice with at the range.
 
Better than a rock! :D:D:D

I carry a LCP. It is light, thin, and not noticeable in my pocket.

I would be carrying a .380 bodyguard if they had been available when I bought the Ruger.

As far as caliber, the .22 has killed a lot.
 
When I started with a pocket carry piece, I chose the LCP first. I loved it, lightweight, thin, accurate, fun, etc. Then I bought a 442 and the LCP started collecting dust, and was sold shortly thereafter. I'd guess you'd be just about as well armed with either the LCP or a 5-shot snub. They make better ammo nowadays...it's not 1953 anymore, defense loads have come a long way. I'd rather carry something with more power, but I never felt too undergunned when I went out w/ just a .380 or .38....
 
crittar said:
ok ,i have not fired any 380 but considering their size and weight i thought maybe they would be a decent CCW . but a friend said he shot at a drum type barrel and the bullets bounced off, can this be true and if so i wouldn't consider getting one. any one have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the Forum. If you have some shooting experience but do not own a suitable CCW, my suggestion is to find a range that rents several types (.380, .38/.357, 9 mm, possibly .40 S & W) and try them before buying. All will require practice to be effective, but if you have large hands many newer .380s are very small and may be difficult for you to use. I think it is better to spend $50 on a range trip and find out you don't get along with a certain gun/caliber before spending $400 on a gun you cannot shoot effectively.

If you already own a potential CCW in one of the calibers listed above, the simplest answer is lots of ammo and practice.
 
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Maybe I'm missing the point of the original post...

You should easily be able to outrun the barrel in the first place with no shots fired. :p
 
Quote:
"Originally Posted by Fishinfool View Post
A compact pocket .380 that you have with you is a lot better then the .bulky 45 you left home....
What a great saying. I'll be stealing that one to use on other sites...lol"

Yeah, this saying has made the rounds for years now. In my view, it has a collary: Perhaps you shouldn't have left that bulky .45 at home.

If you are ever actually faced with gunfighting, you could come to rue the day that you sacrificed all on the alter of easy convenience and so must rely on a stunted, hard to shoot, and piddly pistol.

I have a runt .380 but do my best to contrive to hide something in which I have real confidence rather than depend on it for everyday carry. While the .380 could do to" get 'em off of me" at powder-burning range it really isn't a confidence-inspiring round. It isn't equal in application to a .38 Special with a stiff +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter no matter what sort of data is trotted out by fans.

I'm old fashioned but will take the bulk and weight of a good K-Frame or full-sized 1911 and leave the .380 home whenever possible.

I will say that the .380 can penetrate, even at long distance. I once shot mine through 4 thicknesses of galvanized, corrugated, trash can layers, the target being two old trash cans stacked one within the other. Distance was 165 yards. By using the first 6-round magazine for ranging shots, 4 of the 6 shots in the second magazine hit the stacked garbage cans.
 
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The problem with .380 currently is that in available loads you can have sufficient penetration ( 12" or more in calibrated ballistic gelatin according to the FBI standard) to reach vital tissues, or you can have reasonably reliable expansion, to maximize bleed out, but you can't have both. You need both if you want to stop the fight as quickly as possible. Maybe someday some engineer will figure out how to make it happen.

To get both sufficient penetration and reliable expansion in the same load now you have to step up to 9x19 or .38 Spec +P.

IMO a .380 is better than no handgun at all, and arguably better than .22 LR, .25 ACP, or .32 ACP, but I would think long and hard before choosing a .380, with all the slim lightweight 9mm autos and airweight j-frame +P .38s available now.

Yes a .380 will kill a human, given time and great bullet placement, and so will a .22 Short, but that's not the point. The point is to stop the fight, quickly, and that's quite a different matter.
 
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I carry a subcompact 357sig Glock as much as possible, but when that isn't an option, I stick a TCP in my pocket...as others have said "It's better than a rock."
 
oldtexan said:
The problem with .380 currently is that in available loads you can have sufficient penetration ( 12" or more in calibrated ballistic gelatin according to the FBI standard) to reach vital tissues, or you can have reasonably reliable expansion, to maximize bleed out, but you can't have both. You need both if you want to stop the fight as quickly as possible. Maybe someday some engineer will figure out how to make it happen.
Click to expand...

Watch the video. The demo ammo is .380: Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 380 Auto :: 380 Auto 90 gr Critical Defense®
 
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bmcgilvray said:
Quote:
"Originally Posted by Fishinfool View Post
A compact pocket .380 that you have with you is a lot better then the .bulky 45 you left home....
What a great saying. I'll be stealing that one to use on other sites...lol"

Yeah, this saying has made the rounds for years now. In my view, it has a collary: Perhaps you shouldn't have left that bulky .45 at home.

If you are ever actually faced with gunfighting, you could come to rue the day that you sacrificed all on the alter of easy convenience and so must rely on a stunted, hard to shoot, and piddly pistol.

I have a runt .380 but do my best to contrive to hide something in which I have real confidence rather than depend on it for everyday carry. While the .380 could do to" get 'em off of me" at powder-burning range it really isn't a confidence-inspiring round. It isn't equal in application to a .38 Special with a stiff +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter no matter what sort of data is trotted out by fans.

I'm old fashioned but will take the bulk and weight of a good K-Frame or full-sized 1911 and leave the .380 home whenever possible.

I will say that the .380 can penetrate, even at long distance. I once shot mine through 4 thicknesses of galvanized, corrugated, trash can layers, the target being two old trash cans stacked one within the other. Distance was 165 yards. By using the first 6-round magazine for ranging shots, 4 of the 6 shots in the second magazine hit the stacked garbage cans.
Click to expand...

I agree, a properly loaded .40 or .45 is great. Problem is, a lot of guys, and girls just will not go thru the hassle of carrying a larger, holstered weapon on them on a daily basis. A .380 is not my first choice in a defensive round, but if you have it with you (which is the point), and you practice double taps, you are still way ahead of the game..

Larry
 
My biggest point about carrying concealed is that you MUST have the gun that you WILL CARRY all of the time. Many people buy a full-size gun and then don't carry it because it's not comfortable, prints, etc... My wife carries a Ruger LCP and I carry a S&W 3913 and the Sig P239. I have bigger, heavier guns, but they don't fit the "concealed carry" requirements as well for me as these two... just my humble opinion
 
can't recollect ever seeing any doubter say they would stand at 50' heavily dressed to 'test' the effectiveness of the .380acp 95-100 gr jhp out of 3.5" barrel.
doubt I ever will.
 
These are the dumbest threads ever and they come up all the time. Of course a pocket 380 is not your first choice in a gunfight. Carry the most effective firearm you can when you can. That's it. Not too complicated. If you can carry a rifle, that is even better. Real world though you can't always carry big. And a LCP/BG380 carries SMALL. It fits in a pocket holster and goes into my pocket. Most bigger caliber guns won't do that. "Maybe you should bring your .45". Maybe you should show me how to carry a .45 in shorts, t shirt, and flip flops. A healthy sized (read not fat) can't consistently conceal that weapon in summer time (hot) weather and cool clothes. Yes, I can take a PICTURE with an UZI under my shirt and make it look concealed. But you can't move around and continue the charade. BUGs have a very real place in your arsenal. Carry bigger when and if you can, but carry. That is where these guns come in handy. This isn't about laying your junk on the counter and saying "mines bigger" which is what these thread almost always become. Everyone should grow up and use common sense.
 
off road said:
I bought one .380 in my lifetime (AMT Backup), but never carried it. After testing a few rounds, I had lots of second thoughts....

I will qualify this by saying that recent ammo developments might change my mind today. Something like Glasers or Hornaday Critical Defense, has possibilities. Still, it would have to be a BUG, never my primary weapon.

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 380 Auto :: 380 Auto 90 gr Critical Defense®
Click to expand...

You mention carrying a BUG. Most of us are not LEOs and it's hard enough to carry one gun concealed let alone two. I find the small 380s like my LCP are ideal for CCW because I always have it with me. A Smith 442 is almost as easy to carry but in hot Florida weather, I haven't found anything better then the tiny .380. Loaded with Critical Defense, I don't feel under gunned and I can carry it in shorts and a tee shirt and have 7 rounds ready to go.
 
can't recollect ever seeing any doubter say they would stand at 50' heavily dressed to 'test' the effectiveness of the .380acp 95-100 gr jhp out of 3.5" barrel.

doubt I ever will.
Click to expand...

Man I hate that analogy. I wouldn't volunteer to stand with my hands behind my back while 1st graders punched me in the face unabated either. Does that mean I should OC a 1st grader?



BTW, I have a P3AT in my front pocket.
 
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frank_drebin said:
Man I hate that analogy. I would volunteer to stand with my hands behing my back while 1st graders punched me in the face unabated either. Does that mean I should OC a 1st grader?
Click to expand...

LMAO!!!! :D

You may carry a first grader, but you'd have a heck of a time concealing the bugger..... :cool:

Still, let's not get off the original post. There are barrels attacking some people and we need to determine the best barrel gun. Or barrel killer I guess. :p
 
Lost Lake said:
LMAO!!!! :D

You may carry a first grader, but you'd have a heck of a time concealing the bugger..... :cool:

Still, let's not get off the original post. There are barrels attacking some people and we need to determine the best barrel gun. Or barrel killer I guess. :p
Click to expand...

Don't laugh. Barrels are watching.

monster.jpg
 
pedropcola said:
These are the dumbest threads ever and they come up all the time. Of course a pocket 380 is not your first choice in a gunfight. Carry the most effective firearm you can when you can. That's it. Not too complicated. If you can carry a rifle, that is even better. Real world though you can't always carry big. And a LCP/BG380 carries SMALL. It fits in a pocket holster and goes into my pocket. Most bigger caliber guns won't do that. "Maybe you should bring your .45". Maybe you should show me how to carry a .45 in shorts, t shirt, and flip flops. A healthy sized (read not fat) can't consistently conceal that weapon in summer time (hot) weather and cool clothes. Yes, I can take a PICTURE with an UZI under my shirt and make it look concealed. But you can't move around and continue the charade. BUGs have a very real place in your arsenal. Carry bigger when and if you can, but carry. That is where these guns come in handy. This isn't about laying your junk on the counter and saying "mines bigger" which is what these thread almost always become. Everyone should grow up and use common sense.
Click to expand...

Great response. It should be titled "concealed carry for regular people" (a group of which I am a proud member, by the way).
 
My biggest concern... the magazine release button

Nutnfancy on Youtube video released the mag while testing... a Keltec I think on his range.

A gun shop owner pulled one from his pocket his pocket (no holster)... he had bumped it and the magazine had released at somepoint.

Still... I had to try a Keltec P32 and never had an issue while in a pocket holster, but accidentally released the mag at the range.

The P32 was a great carry piece. It's problem (only talking about my gun, not the series in general) was something was wrong with the gun's accuracy. Even the guy I sold it too and his friend say something aint right with the gun.

My take on the .380 from Ruger or Keltec. The .380 is marginal to begin with... but the mag release button disqualifies it for personal protection.
 
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I have yet to inadvertently release the mag on this gun. I guess I don't understand your statement. Are you against a mag release button or just on the ruger or keltec. Are you even talking about the BG380?
 
Here is the opinion of Dr. Gary Roberts, a LCDR in the U.S. Naval Reserve who, in his own words, has "25 years of Naval service performing combat trauma and wound ballistic research." He also is the main author of The Best Choices for Self-Defense Ammo FAQ over at ar15.com. Quoted from the m4carbine.net forum:

"Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not acceptable for law enforcement use and most savvy agencies prohibit them."

Seems he recommends that if your going to CCW .380, you should use FMJ. YYMV.
 
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