380 Auto reloads

[gwpercle]

Heads are where you go to the bathroom on a Navy ship. Tails now that is different. Oh heads or tails when the coil is filled at a NFL game.

My dad was a WWII Navy veteran , and very proud of it, for many years he called the bathroom the "head" , so me and my brother did too , much to the chagrin of our mother !
After her objections to the term head , dad said to call it the poop deck....all 0f a sudden "head " was allowed .

I had forgotten , that memory put a smile on my face !
Thanks for reminding me of the Navy's "head" , my great dad and the poop deck !

Gary

 

[Speedo2]

After a 20 year hiatus I've returned to reloading 380 ACP and have a few observations.

Back then I had a Sig P230SL and hated it; that thing just hammered my hand. I had no idea what the MV's were back then, but I found myself down-loading 95 gr RNL's with as little as 2.5 gr W-231 just to shoot the darned thing semi-comfortably. I expect that the MV's of those mouse farts was around 650 fps; who knows? Anyways, that Sig didn't last long and I sold it quite a while ago, vowing never to return to 380-land.

Fast forward 20 years. I've still got several hundred 380's stored in the basement and this Glock 42 starts talking to me at the LGS. Well, in a moment of weakness I succumbed to its sirens' song and it went home with me. Imagine my surprise when those 2.5-to-2.9 W-231's wouldn't even cycle the slide! She was sure a soft shooter, but holy cow...who wants a single shot 380 ccw?

So it's back to the loading manuals. My Lyman 48 shows 3.1 W-231 as a max load for 95 gr lead, so with trepidation that's what I try. NFG! Only around 50% of them will cycle the G42's slide and using my trusty Chrony, I'm finding this "max load" has only around 780 fps MV.

I had also loaded a few 100 gr HBRN (Berry's) and 105 gr FP-coated (Bayou) with that "max load" of 3.1 gr W-231. Here's my results:

95 gr RNL-coated (Bayou) w/ 3.1 gr W-231: 782.5 fps average (of 10); 16.4 fps std.dev.; 6 of 10 FTE's
100 gr HBRN-plated (Berry's) w/ 3.1 gr W-231: 695.2 fps average (of 10); 18.7 fps std.dev.; 4 of 10 FTE's
105 gr FP-coated (Bayou) w/ 3.1 gr W-231: 823.2 fps average (of 10); 18.2 fps std.dev.; 0 of 10 FTE's.

Soooo....what the heck is up with those 100 gr HBRN's? Anyways, I've thrown caution to the wind and have loaded a few up to 3.4 gr W-231 and will give them a shot (literally) sometime next week.

Lesson learned so far: there's quite a difference in felt recoil between blow-back and locked breach pistols! -S2

 

[gregintenn]

I've found the 100 grain plated bullets to have pretty much the same point of impact as 90 grain factory loads. Your mileage may vary, but it's worth a shot.

Due to it's diminutive size, the 380 is a pain in the keester to reload.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have had very good luck with Berry's plated bullets in my .380 pistols. Some of them don't like lead, even coated lead, but they all eat the Berry's plated bullets just fine.

 

[Magload]

Here is my LR chrono data from my 380 loads. I am trying to match the Hornady Critical Defense 90gr FTX loads for practice. These are with my Bodyguard.

Critical Defense 90gr HV 939, LV 857, AV 900, ES 82, SD 21
X-Treme 100gr plated RNFP 3.3gr CFE P HV 688 LV 627 AV 656 ES 61 SD 19
X-Treme 100gr plated RNFP 4.0gr CFE P MAX HV 859 LV 801 AV 825 ES 58 SD 21
X-Treme 100gr plated RNFP 2.3gr Titegroup HV 669 LV618 AV 637 ES 51
X-Treme 100gr plated RNFP 3.0gr Titegroup MAX HV 846 LV 771 AV 814
ES 75 SD21

I am shooting the 3.0gr of Titegroup. I don't like loading to Max but that is as close as I can get to the Crirical Defense loads. Yes and they are snappy. All the loads cycled just fine even the starting loads at 637fps. They were comfortable to shoot but the best groups was up at top end and I only shoot 25 rounds 4 times a week so I can live with the snap.

 

[federali]

To The Defense

I think that concerns with changes in point of impact between different bullets are largely unfounded. If you're talking counter-sniper rifles with shots at hundreds of yards, I would certainly agree with you. The .380 ACP is a close range defense gun and minor shifts in point of impact at typical defense distances simply don't matter.

Should that day every come when it's a live adversary in front of you, I don't think you'll be shooting from a bench rest.

 

[LD-Ordie]

Great info here, I'm getting ready to purchase a G42 for my wife's CCW and I'm leaning towards the 95gr JHP from Everglades for my first load. I have had great results with all their bullets

 

[Ballistic147]

Great info here, I'm getting ready to purchase a G42 for my wife's CCW and I'm leaning towards the 95gr JHP from Everglades for my first load. I have had great results with all their bullets

Same here. I've been loading their 95gr JHP and have been very happy with it. My son and I each have a Taurus TCP and they tend to be very ammo sensitive. So far the only factory ammo that has been 100% in them is Prvi Partizan and Fiochi. So far my reloads with the 95gr FMJ and 3.0gr of W231 have been 100% as well. As of right now I've loaded 380, 9mm, 38 Special, 40S&W, and 45ACP with Everglades FMJ's and all have been excellent. Haven't tried any of their hollow points as I only use factory ammo in my SD guns but I'm sure they are good quality too.

 

[Speedo2]

OK, let's stir the pot a little here....

I'm starting to think that OAL may be sort of important with this cartridge. I kicked up my W-231 load to 3.4 grains under 95 gr RNL's and I'm still not cycling my G42's slide with 100% reliability; only getting around 820 FPS according to my Chrony. Hodgdon's published data says that they get 884 FPS with 3.2 gr W-231. So...why the differences?

1. Hodgdon used a 3.75" BBL vs my G42's 3" BBL. OK; mo BBL, mo betta. I checked some UMC 95 gr FMJ's and recorded 930 FPS from my G42 vs Remington's published MV at 955 FPS (probably using a universal barrel). So I can probably equate around 25 FPS of my velocity discrepancy with Hodgdon to BBL. Oh yeah; all of the UMC store bought cartridges cycled beautifully from my G42.

2. Hodgdon's published data shows COL at 0.970" vs my reloads with W-231 at 0.980" for all of my trial loads. Why, oh why did I choose 0.980" as my OAL? Well the short answer is that I wasn't thinking clearly. I had succumbed to the philosophy that accuracy may be improved by seating bullets to the max OAL that will properly fit in both the chamber and magazine. My error was that the G42 isn't designed to be a target pistol.

So, next step will be to re-try 3.1 and 3.4 grains W-231 seated at 0.970" OAL to check velocities and reliable slide operation for both 95 gr RNL's and 90 gr JHP's. Just need to get back to the loading bench and pistol range after this week's dog-sitting extravaganza is over.

Incidentally, those Bayou coated 105 gr FP's are really liking 3.1 grains of W-231 seated at 0.980": averaging 830 FPS, soft recoil, and 100% reliable slide operation in my G42. Not intended for EDC, but a very good plinking load. -S2

 

[Chubbo]

Loading the .380 auto.

Buying a Bodyguard the first of the month so today ordered dies and conversion plate and 550 tool head and holder. Also ordered bullets from X treme and Brownell's. Ordered the 90gr XTP as I will be carrying Critical Defense and that is what they use. I like to have a bunch of practice rounds that closely match my SD factory loads. I would have liked to have bought 90gr plated HPs even any 90grs would do, but it seams like everyone carries 100gr. 100s have a little slower max vol. and I expect the POI will differ from the Critical Defense. Why so few choises out there for bullets for this caliber?

Magload,
I think the limited choice of bullets available, is because of the small number of people that reload that cartridge. It being used primarily for defense. I would predict that it will be getting a lot more popular in the future, as more and more handguns are being offered in .380 cal. and a lot more choices of weights, and styles will be offered. At the height of my reloading fever, I bought dies, and components, Had the die plate plate for my RCBS Ammo Master press, got everything all ready, and after 20+ years have still never loaded a round. now my shooting days are about over, and there are all of those die sets for those many calibers that I used to shoot, and reload for. Hang in there and shoot all that you can, while you can.
Chubbo

 

[Magload]

Well I been reloading with the X Treme 100gr Plated RNFP and they are doing very well as SD practice loads. I am pushing them at 814 fps with 3.0gr of Titegroup and shoot 25 4 times a week. Some how I doubled ordered and ended up with 2000 bullets. They are snappy in this little gun.

 

[David Crash]

My WALTHER PK380 like to eat 102 grain Remington Golden sabers. They are accurate enough for my agency qualification to 25 feet.

 

[rwsmith]

But on animals with similar.....

I've got to believe that the most dangerous animals are large muggers/home invaders, followed by Cape Buffalo, Rhinos and Elephants. Hunters interested in personal survival use solids for #'s 2-4 above, and the same reasoning applies, IMO, to #1. Believing that heavy solids rule, I load 100gr fmj's over 4.1-4.2 BE-86. Works great. I tried a number of AA5 loads, but they were way too dirty.

But on animals with similar skin thickness and bone structure as a human, they don't use solids. Bullet choice is critical. They use solids on big, tough animals because the skin and bone and thick and heavy and to penetrate to the vitals, the bullet must be heavy and stay intact in terminal performance. Animals like bushbuck and antelope can be had effectively with a soft tip bullet same as deer here in the states.

Our soldiers don't like FMJ bullets because they punch a small, clean hole through the target, who will eventually stop, drop and die if not hit in the CNS or heart but not right away.

 

[BB57]

But on animals with similar skin thickness and bone structure as a human, they don't use solids. Bullet choice is critical. They use solids on big, tough animals because the skin and bone and thick and heavy and to penetrate to the vitals, the bullet must be heavy and stay intact in terminal performance. Animals like bushbuck and antelope can be had effectively with a soft tip bullet same as deer here in the states.

Our soldiers don't like FMJ bullets because they punch a small, clean hole through the target, who will eventually stop, drop and die if not hit in the CNS or heart but not right away.

I agree. The popular wisdom with the .380 ACP (and .32 ACP) has been to just use an FMJ, but that doesn't make much sense unless you understand how the hollow point you are using might fail.

In some calibers, including the .380 ACP, it is possible for a poorly chosen hollow point to over expand and under penetrate, and that is a concern.

However more often with the .380 ACP shooters get concerned about hollow points that fail to expand, particularly after penetrating heavy clothing. But if that happens, then it will perform just like a truncated cone FMJ.

An example of this is the 90gr XTP, either hand loaded or in any one of a half dozen or so commercial loads. The XTP bullet expands in a very controlled and moderate manner and over expansion just isn't an issue. It can fail to expand in a heavy clothing test, but when that happens it's still no worse than an FMJ - with the benefit that it's a win every time it does expand. In comparison an FMJ will fail to expand every time.

In that regard, my order of preference in the .380 ACP is:

1) 90 gr XTP;
2) 102 gr Golden Saber (a bullet that is more prone to under expansion than over expansion, but tends to penetrate slightly less than a 90 gr XTP);
3) pretty much any 90-100 gr FMJ (where all you're going to ever get is penetration.

 

[Magload]

I agree. The popular wisdom with the .380 ACP (and .32 ACP) has been to just use an FMJ, but that doesn't make much sense unless you understand how the hollow point you are using might fail.

In some calibers, including the .380 ACP, it is possible for a poorly chosen hollow point to over expand and under penetrate, and that is a concern.

However more often with the .380 ACP shooters get concerned about hollow points that fail to expand, particularly after penetrating heavy clothing. But if that happens, then it will perform just like a truncated cone FMJ.

An example of this is the 90gr XTP, either hand loaded or in any one of a half dozen or so commercial loads. The XTP bullet expands in a very controlled and moderate manner and over expansion just isn't an issue. It can fail to expand in a heavy clothing test, but when that happens it's still no worse than an FMJ - with the benefit that it's a win every time it does expand. In comparison an FMJ will fail to expand every time.

In that regard, my order of preference in the .380 ACP is:

1) 90 gr XTP;
2) 102 gr Golden Saber (a bullet that is more prone to under expansion than over expansion, but tends to penetrate slightly less than a 90 gr XTP);
3) pretty much any 90-100 gr FMJ (where all you're going to ever get is penetration.

I carry Critical Defense 90gr XTP in my 380 ACP and my (mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I have been using the 40 S&W M&P CORE for home protection and am thinking on switching to Guard Dogs in it.

 

[rwsmith]

If you can find/afford them....

Speer makes a 90 gr. Gold Dot for .380. I haven't looked into it, but I'd assume they are engineered similarly to the 'short barrel' 135 grain .38 specials.

 

[BB57]

I carry Critical Defense 90gr XTP in my 380 ACP and my (mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I have been using the 40 S&W M&P CORE for home protection and am thinking on switching to Guard Dogs in it.

Double check the bullet in your Critical Defense ammo. As I recall Hornady uses the 90 gr FTX, not the 90 gr XTP in it.

The FTX uses a red polymer plug and it works great to promote expansion, even in a heavy clothing or 4 layer denim test. Unfortunately, it also firmly places the 90 gr FTX round in the "under penetration" category. A 90 gr XTP at 1000 fps MV will penetrate 12-13" in ballistic gelatin. The 90 gr FTX only penetrates 9-10" at the same muzzle velocity.

The Hornady 90 gr XTP ammo is sold as the "90 gr XTP" load, and in their "American Gunner 90 gr XTP" load.

 

[Magload]

Double check the bullet in your Critical Defense ammo. As I recall Hornady uses the 90 gr FTX, not the 90 gr XTP in it.

The FTX uses a red polymer plug and it works great to promote expansion, even in a heavy clothing or 4 layer denim test. Unfortunately, it also firmly places the 90 gr FTX round in the "under penetration" category. A 90 gr XTP at 1000 fps MV will penetrate 12-13" in ballistic gelatin. The 90 gr FTX only penetrates 9-10" at the same muzzle velocity.

The Hornady 90 gr XTP ammo is sold as the "90 gr XTP" load, and in their "American Gunner 90 gr XTP" load.

Sorry you are right I was just drifting along. We use to many of these 3 letter designations now days. I guess it makes texting easier and takes up less room on the ammo box. Maybe it is time to shoot up this Critical Defense and get some Gold Dots or American Gunner. When protecting yourself with a 380 ACP you need the best there is.

 

[njl]

Fast forward 20 years. I've still got several hundred 380's stored in the basement and this Glock 42 starts talking to me at the LGS. Well, in a moment of weakness I succumbed to its sirens' song and it went home with me. Imagine my surprise when those 2.5-to-2.9 W-231's wouldn't even cycle the slide! She was sure a soft shooter, but holy cow...who wants a single shot 380 ccw?

So it's back to the loading manuals. My Lyman 48 shows 3.1 W-231 as a max load for 95 gr lead, so with trepidation that's what I try. NFG! Only around 50% of them will cycle the G42's slide and using my trusty Chrony, I'm finding this "max load" has only around 780 fps MV.

I had also loaded a few 100 gr HBRN (Berry's) and 105 gr FP-coated (Bayou) with that "max load" of 3.1 gr W-231. Here's my results:

95 gr RNL-coated (Bayou) w/ 3.1 gr W-231: 782.5 fps average (of 10); 16.4 fps std.dev.; 6 of 10 FTE's
100 gr HBRN-plated (Berry's) w/ 3.1 gr W-231: 695.2 fps average (of 10); 18.7 fps std.dev.; 4 of 10 FTE's
105 gr FP-coated (Bayou) w/ 3.1 gr W-231: 823.2 fps average (of 10); 18.2 fps std.dev.; 0 of 10 FTE's.

Soooo....what the heck is up with those 100 gr HBRN's? Anyways, I've thrown caution to the wind and have loaded a few up to 3.4 gr W-231 and will give them a shot (literally) sometime next week.

Lesson learned so far: there's quite a difference in felt recoil between blow-back and locked breach pistols! -S2

As you've probably found by now, the Glock 42 needs its ammo loaded on the warmer side. Mine needs pretty much max loads of Promo or Titegroup to function with 100gr plated bullets. With Universal, even a max load with that bullet didn't work for me. Given that, with a 95gr JHP, a max load of Universal works surprisingly well.

 

[ddraper]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Sierra 8100. It is a 90 grain JHP. This happens to be my goto bullet for reloading 380. I like to use 3.0 grain of W231, for little more punch you can also load 3.1 of W231.

From Sierra, "Sierra's Power Jacket with skives enhances expansion in varmints at handgun velocities. Pure lead is used for the core to give good penetration with excellent expansion. The 90 grain #8100 is an excellent bullet for the 380 ACP and can be loaded in that cartridge to excellent velocities for high energy release and effective self defense."

Product - Sierra Bullets - The Bulletsmiths