+1 on the Bersa or the CZ. I have a Bersa Thunder .380, and have fired the CZ. I like them both. As for the .380 being a piss-ant round, I have yet to find any one who is willing to be shot by one to prove the point.
380 PLEASE-Which One?
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GatorFarmer
Member
I have a CZ82. They're wretchedly heavy for what they are, whether it is the 82 or the 83. Anywhere that one can conceal one, a G26/27/33 would go and would weigh about the same while doing more (and even carrying as many rounds with certain optional mags). The CZs do not have a decocker, so you can either carefully lower the hammer on a live round or else carry it cocked and locked.
My wife has a P3AT.
I actually fully understand the desire to have a larger/easier to use .380. Reliability is going to be better in the larger guns (unless you get a real lemon of a US made PPK) and they are easier to hit with. I simply don't trust the QC at KelTec or the reliability of the P3ATs personally.
The vestigal sights on the KelTecs limit them more than I choose to usually have a gun limited. I could get decent hits with my Interarms PPK at the 25 yard line. Same with the Beretta. (I never tried my Sig P232 beyond 50 ft.)
KelTec has great customer service, but old George never fled far from his Tec9 roots in terms of what he does product wise. He's the John Moses Browning of the SNS, but I mean that in a loving way. You've got a fair chance of a gun working, but there's also a chance that it just plain won't. The similar P32 is probably less buggy and I was happy with the one I had in terms of what it was and what it was for.
User friendly compared to easy to carry is a balancing act. There are people, myself included, who simply don't like where the balance lays with a P3AT or Ruger.
I traded my Bersa that I bought just to see what the whole Bersa thing was about for an ADC 9mm Derringer and actually thought that I got the better part of that deal. They're okay, but build quality does not approach the Sig, Beretta, or good quality Walthers (I've no experience with the current S&W incarnation). If you poke around a bit online, you'll also find that they sometimes have parts breakage issues. I also don't like guns with internal locks, which the Bersa had.
The best of the guns in this sort of niche that I've ever owned is one that you'll probably never be able to find. That was a Walther PP Super in 9x18 Ultra/Police (not Makarov), though these were also made in .380. I paid all of 200 dollars for mine since no one knew what it was.
My wife has a P3AT.
I actually fully understand the desire to have a larger/easier to use .380. Reliability is going to be better in the larger guns (unless you get a real lemon of a US made PPK) and they are easier to hit with. I simply don't trust the QC at KelTec or the reliability of the P3ATs personally.
The vestigal sights on the KelTecs limit them more than I choose to usually have a gun limited. I could get decent hits with my Interarms PPK at the 25 yard line. Same with the Beretta. (I never tried my Sig P232 beyond 50 ft.)
KelTec has great customer service, but old George never fled far from his Tec9 roots in terms of what he does product wise. He's the John Moses Browning of the SNS, but I mean that in a loving way. You've got a fair chance of a gun working, but there's also a chance that it just plain won't. The similar P32 is probably less buggy and I was happy with the one I had in terms of what it was and what it was for.
User friendly compared to easy to carry is a balancing act. There are people, myself included, who simply don't like where the balance lays with a P3AT or Ruger.
I traded my Bersa that I bought just to see what the whole Bersa thing was about for an ADC 9mm Derringer and actually thought that I got the better part of that deal. They're okay, but build quality does not approach the Sig, Beretta, or good quality Walthers (I've no experience with the current S&W incarnation). If you poke around a bit online, you'll also find that they sometimes have parts breakage issues. I also don't like guns with internal locks, which the Bersa had.
The best of the guns in this sort of niche that I've ever owned is one that you'll probably never be able to find. That was a Walther PP Super in 9x18 Ultra/Police (not Makarov), though these were also made in .380. I paid all of 200 dollars for mine since no one knew what it was.
westkybanded
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I'd almost as soon be shot with one as to find (and buy) factory ammo for it.. I've been seeing it over $50.00 a box lately! That's more expensive to feed than my 41 magnum!
Now, weenie rounds--
One of my favorite quotes:
"If you were to shoot somebody with that .25, and they find out about it, they're liable to be real pissed."
Jim Shugart
Member
Hell, I'm not willing to be shot with a .22 or a .25acp -- or with a .177 pellet, for that matter: But that doesn't make them adequate self defense rounds.
I think what flopshank is saying (and I'm saying), if it isn't VERY small/light/concealable, then what's its advantage over a 642 loaded with .38 +P's?
- Jim
Burley
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I just might have to pick up another 380 one day. My range has great 380 hollow point reloads for 11 bucks a box of 50 and I get one every time I go shoot so I've a a nice little cache of 380 JHP reloads. LCP as a pocket rocket here.
I'm keeping an eye out for the Charter Arms 9mm snub revo that will also shoot 380.
I'm keeping an eye out for the Charter Arms 9mm snub revo that will also shoot 380.
GatorFarmer
Member
In general, when the question of .380 vs. J frame would come up (as it often would online and in the popular gun press, particularly in the days before the micro 9mms), the advantages of the .380 were usually greater capacity, faster reload time, and often more controllable than an alloy frame .38.
I found that practical accuracy on the .380s that I had was often better than a snub revolver.
Something the size of the Beretta is getting to be nigh on recoilless.
USAF385
US Veteran
I'll give another shout out to Bersa Thunders. I like the fixed barrel and ease to clean. They're pretty accurate and I've fired three with no problems. (One belonging to my GF, one to her sister, and one I owned for a time.)
Mickey D
Member
I personally prefer at least a .38 Spl, but here are a few suggestions,
Colt 1908
Colt Pocketlite Government Model .380
Walther PPK/s
Colt 1908
Colt Pocketlite Government Model .380
Walther PPK/s
Faulkner
Member
Now that right there is an informed opinion.
BigRich315
Member
Now that right there is an informed opinion.I try
Jerry in SC
Member
The new Kahr .380 is a great shooting pistol, very small and light. The one I shot was 100% reliable.
The Sig 238 is a neat little pistol, but I don't see the reasoning of a single action pocket .380.
For someone with a limited budget, the Ruger LCP is a good choice. They are pretty soft shooters in comparison to the .380 Seecamp.
The Sig 238 is a neat little pistol, but I don't see the reasoning of a single action pocket .380.
For someone with a limited budget, the Ruger LCP is a good choice. They are pretty soft shooters in comparison to the .380 Seecamp.
Frizzman
US Veteran
I have had several .380 pistols including Walthers and Sigs and a .380 Backup and a Mak as well as a couple of Bersas as well as a Grendell(sic) and probabbly some more I don't remember. Some were pretty well made and reliable and some junk that might get one killed. When I was in my prime, if one wanted a fairly smaller pistol, other than a .25 or .22, it was usually a .380/.32 auto. The only .380 I currently own is a Colt Mustang Pocketlite. It is retired and sits in the safe. My daughter wants it to go with her Colt GM.
Since the small Kahrs came on the market, I haven't gotten another .380. I just don't feel the need for a fairly large/heavy, all steel pistol in a fairly marginal caliber. I know there are those who believe the Kahrs to have problems but mine has been reliable and durable. Its a P9 Covert. And I don't work for or sell Kahrs. I would put the Glock 26/27/33 in the same category. The only .380 I would consider would be one of the really small, light pistols for a BUG. That would be a 3AT or LCP or new Sig IF I found it to be reliable. I have a P32 that I now use for that and it works well and the difference between a .380 and .32 is neglible I think.
Finally, I read the statement that, " I wouldn't want to be shot by anything." I agree that that applies to me. On the other hand, people who are high on crack or other substances and are also very aggressive and paranoid may not be intimidated at all by the sight of a gun pointed at them. When I was a LEO, I had a few times when a subject would sneer and dare me to shoot them. I want a handgun, if all I can have is a handgun, that has some reasonable chance of stopping an enraged, drugged/drunk and strong person from killing me or others... I don't have much confidence that a .380 will do that well...IMHO
Since the small Kahrs came on the market, I haven't gotten another .380. I just don't feel the need for a fairly large/heavy, all steel pistol in a fairly marginal caliber. I know there are those who believe the Kahrs to have problems but mine has been reliable and durable. Its a P9 Covert. And I don't work for or sell Kahrs. I would put the Glock 26/27/33 in the same category. The only .380 I would consider would be one of the really small, light pistols for a BUG. That would be a 3AT or LCP or new Sig IF I found it to be reliable. I have a P32 that I now use for that and it works well and the difference between a .380 and .32 is neglible I think.
Finally, I read the statement that, " I wouldn't want to be shot by anything." I agree that that applies to me. On the other hand, people who are high on crack or other substances and are also very aggressive and paranoid may not be intimidated at all by the sight of a gun pointed at them. When I was a LEO, I had a few times when a subject would sneer and dare me to shoot them. I want a handgun, if all I can have is a handgun, that has some reasonable chance of stopping an enraged, drugged/drunk and strong person from killing me or others... I don't have much confidence that a .380 will do that well...IMHO
cmort666
Member
Walther PPK/S. I owned one in the '80s. Got rid of it to finance something else. There was no concealed carry anywhere I'd lived, so it was mostly an underpowered play toy.
Today, it'd have a use for me, but when I need to carry something that small, I carry my Model 36.
Today, it'd have a use for me, but when I need to carry something that small, I carry my Model 36.
Have had the same PPK/S for over 30 years. Accurate, and dependable. I throated mine for additional reliability - I want to be able to shoot any brand ammo without worrying about it. Use S&W JHP and Super-Vel JHP ammo. Both feed all the time. Use Pachmayr full wrap-around grips for excellent control and no slide bite. I only wish the gun had adjustable sights - another project for the future. You can't beat the German made Walthers.
greyhawk178
US Veteran
My wife has, carries and loves her P3AT Kel-Tec.It is the ONLY gun I have been able to get her to carry all the time. She has a Sig P239 and a Taurus 85, but she carries the KT. I got her some CorBon power point ammo for it so I feel a bit better about it. But...for me, it is ALOT better than what she used to carry. Nothing.
ambassador
Member
Another vote for the Bersa Thunderer. It is a fine, reliable, and accurate .380. I also have a NAA Guardian in .380 and it is sheer dependability and ruggedness, but also heavier and bulkier. But, (shudder) I have acquired and carry the Ruger LCP for the past year, as it is so small, light and reliable, I will carry it anywhere, just slip it in the pocket. With the new Hornady Critical Defense load, I do not feel under-gunned. I have no problem with the size and from 20 ft. will shoot a full magazine into 2 1/2".
I have Browning (FN)s, Walthers, Sigs, Keltecs and Ruger .380s.
It depends on what you want from the gun and how much your willing to sacrafice in comfort to carry it.
I carried a Sig P230 for many years as a BUG in an shootingsystems ankle holster. It took about three days to get used to it and then it was just always there.
I now carry a little Ruger LCP, day in and day out. I'm also carrying a Glock 19 and other assorted guns depending upon the location I going in and the weather, but the little Ruger is still there.
I always carry FMJ Ball in my .380s as I figure that its not likely that the "wonder bullets" will open up in these short barreled guns. So I'll take reliability and penetration over maybe flowering out.
Rule 303
It depends on what you want from the gun and how much your willing to sacrafice in comfort to carry it.
I carried a Sig P230 for many years as a BUG in an shootingsystems ankle holster. It took about three days to get used to it and then it was just always there.
I now carry a little Ruger LCP, day in and day out. I'm also carrying a Glock 19 and other assorted guns depending upon the location I going in and the weather, but the little Ruger is still there.
I always carry FMJ Ball in my .380s as I figure that its not likely that the "wonder bullets" will open up in these short barreled guns. So I'll take reliability and penetration over maybe flowering out.
Rule 303
Wayne02
Member
Can the LCP's be outfitted with the finger extension mags?
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