.380 vs .38spl...

[getoff]

I will start by saying I know this has been hashed and re-hashed a thousand or so times. This is not so much about mfg. or caliber, as it is platform. Do you feel more comfy with a small semi-auto or a 5 shot revo, both from reliable reputable makers? I love my 5 shot small frame revo from the bestest, finest maker of revolvers ever, but seem to grab a .380 made by an Austrian company in a factory in the state where I live, more. I'm thinking it may be familiarity to the platform, as I carry a fuller size version mostly. Something about 7rnd + 2 9rnd reloads I like. that said, 5 .38 +p and 2 5rnd speed loaders are a tempting go to. The .380 is faster to reload, and the .38spl +p has more power... just wanting to see if I'm the only one doing this, or are others finding a flatter option on them? My 5 shot will never be replaced on a permanent basis, but is the flatty for a quick trip to the post office ok? Am I over thinking my choices after 25 years of carrying a gun? Maybe older age, and comfort are leading me astray... ready, set, GO!!!

 

[TomkinsSP]

If you LIKE .380 you CAN have it in a nice dependable DA revolver. T***** M380.

 

[cmort666]

The .380 GUN may be more convenient to carry, but call me when there's a 158gr. +P .380 load... that doesn't wreck the gun.

 

[Mister X]

There's no consensus on the issue, but here is what Dr.Gary Roberts(who has been called the leading wound ballistics expert in the world) had to say in a briefing to the FBI...

“Many small, easily concealed semi-automatic pistols which are recommended for law enforcement backup or concealed carry use fire .380 ACP or smaller bullets. While these small caliber handgun bullets can produce fatal wounds, they are less likely to produce the rapid incapacitation necessary in law enforcement or self-defense situations.

Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP’s is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ’s offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don’t use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not acceptable for law enforcement use and most savvy agencies prohibit them. While both the .380 ACP and .38 spl can obviously be lethal; the .38 spl is more likely to incapacitate an attacker when used in a BUG role.

BUG–Infrequently used, but when needed, it must be 100% reliable because of the extreme emergency situation the user is dealing with. Generally secreted in pockets, ankle holsters, body armor holsters, etc… Often covered in lint, grime, and gunk. By their very nature, usually applied to the opponent in an up close and personal encounter, many times involving contact shots. A small .38 spl revolver is more reliable in these situations than a small .380 ACP pistol, especially with contact shots or if fired from a pocket.”


Craig "Southnarc" Douglas from Shivworks had a much different opinion when asked what he would choose if he was to carry a J-Frame or Glock 43 as a primary...

"Actually I'd skip both and go down to a G42. I got one for my wife and it's an incredibly shootable little gun. Way more than the other two. I really think the G42 is in a class by itself. I can't think of a single .380 that shoots like it. "

 

[Watchdog]

I will start by saying I know this has been hashed and re-hashed a thousand or so times.

Yep.

I love my 5 shot small frame revo from the bestest, finest maker of revolvers ever, but seem to grab a .380 made by an Austrian company in a factory in the state where I live, more.

It's okay to say "Smith & Wesson" and "Glock" on this forum. Really, it is.

I'm thinking it may be familiarity to the platform, as I carry a fuller size version mostly. Something about 7rnd + 2 9rnd reloads I like.

Well, since you brought up the reload thing, I'll say this. I don't put much stock in capability for quick reloads, whether it's with the .380 or the .38. Reason being I don't belive you're going to get into an extended gunfight or a pitched battle with your personal defense handgun, whatever it is. If you're in a situation where you're expecting real trouble, you aren't going to be carrying a .38 or .380 in the first place. Just my opinion, you understand. I'm sure there are a bunch of people here who'll loudly disagree with that. That's fine with me.

My 5 shot will never be replaced on a permanent basis, but is the flatty for a quick trip to the post office ok?

Uh-oh.

Do we really want to get into carrying a gun in the post office again?

Pick some other location. Please. The drugstore, maybe. Or Walmart. Everyone loves threads about carrying guns in Walmart.

Am I over thinking my choices after 25 years of carrying a gun?

Quite simply...yes. If you've been carrying for twenty-five years, you shouldn't have to ask advice on what/how to carry. From anyone.

 

[TomkinsSP]

The .380 GUN may be more convenient to carry, but call me when there's a 158gr. +P .380 load... that doesn't wreck the gun.

No question .38 special is balistically superior to .380 auto. Only advantages .380 has is slightly smaller package (so might be carried instead of nothing) slightly less recoil (so might be practiced with more).

 

[Bamabred]

I carry both and it never really comes to a decision of capacity or caliber, but usually about comfort. My EDC is a Shield 9. But when I want something lighter I carry my LCR 38. When I need deep concealment I carry my LCP II. `I'm okay with 5 rounds of 38sp. I'm okay with 7 rounds of 380.
,

 

[TomkinsSP]

It's okay to say "Smith & Wesson" and "Glock" on this forum. Really, it is.

YES, I notice you IMMEDIATLY knew who he was referring to, and NO, TOS says "no vulgarity".

 

[gwpercle]

With 25 years of experience carry what your instincts say are best and with whatever make you have confidence in.

After decades I find the J frame airweight revolver going out the door with me simply because it's light and I'm familiar with the controls .
Go with what your gut tells you is right..don't try and over analyze it.
Trust your instincts .

 

[Cal44]

Certainly a 380 auto is "OK".

IMHO, a 38 special is better:

o If you choose 38 sp+P loads you get considerably more power.

o Higher velocity with the 38 sp+P will more likely expand -- and still have enough energy left to penetrate. Hard to get both penetration AND expansion from a 380.

o The 38 sp shoot significantly heavier bullets. A plus for penetration.

o Although larger semi autos are very reliable, many sub compact 380 mouse guns have more jams than revolvers.

On the other hand, 380's often have 6,7, or 8 rounds available without needing a reload. Five rounds are usually enough, so the expert say, to resolve a gun fight. But the word "usually" could end up as a problem.

A revolver shooter can reload, but it takes longer. But reloading a semi auto when being shot at has to be iffy also.

Anyway, for me, a 5 shot J frame is my choice.

I've been considering moving to 327 Federal in a LCR primarily to gain one more round and have an option of more power than 38 sp +P

 

[eb07]

I have never felt undergunned with my j frame. I own pocket 380's but always grab the wheel gun

 

[TomkinsSP]

JMO, I seriously doubt that you get reliable expansion out of two inches in .38+p. I also doubt you get any more power out of .327 with a two inch tube than you would just from going to the lighter bullet in .38+p. OTOH my .327 definitly has one more hole in the cylinder.

 

[TomkinsSP]

I have never felt undergunned with my j frame. I own pocket 380's but always grab the wheel gun

Wholeheartedly agree with first sentance. All my .380s are revolvers tho'.

 

[olskool]

for convenience of easy packing I usually carry a 380 colt mustang or my 32 berretta tomcat. I figure if a thug can stand a mag. full of 32 or 380 balls in his face, neck and head then he deserves to live,,,,,,,,,

 

[Cal44]

If you LIKE .380 you CAN have it in a nice dependable DA revolver. T***** M380.

I'm glad to see someone on the forum actually uses, and likes, the little Taurus 380.

It seemed like a nice idea to me.

But I ended up buying an LCR 9mm which is only slightly heavier (17 vs 15.5 oz) and shoots a more capable cartridge.

Still, I'd consider buying an M380 if I ever had a chance.

 

[ContinentalOp]

The universal answer: It depends.

I EDC a 642-1. I'm comfortable with it as my personal defense gun of choice at this time. I prefer .38 Special to .380ACP because I have more confidence in it to stop a violent attack. However, I have considered getting a small .380, like a LCP, for situations where I can carry a gun but my 642 wouldn't be discreet enough. To me, that's the advantage of the .380, the ability to have a gun when anything bigger isn't feasible.

Of course, other factors may come into play. Maybe someone simply shoots a .380 better than a .38 snub. Maybe someone is more familiar with the operation of a particular brand [cough]glock[/cough].

I don't consider reloading speed a high priority. I've seen a couple of studies done of civilian self defense shootings, and reloads just didn't happen. In other studies, reloads were rare and when they did happen tended to have very little impact on the outcome. As always, there are outlier situations, but if I lived my life based on possible outlier situations I'd probably never leave my home. I carry reloads not because I expect to have to reload my gun in the middle of a gunfight, but because if I am forced to fire in self defense I don't want to wait for the police with an empty or partially empty gun (average 911 response time in my town is around 9 minutes).

Choice of gun is just one part of personal security. There are many elements that are often more important, such as awareness/avoidance skills, de-escalation skills, empty-hand skills, bo-staff skills, etc. Ok, that last one wasn't serious.

Ultimately it all boils down to personal preference. As long as you can shoot them well, they're reliable, and you're willing and able to carry them, you should be fine.

 

[rwsmith]

The .380 is the bottom....

The .380 is the bottom of anything I would consider for SD. If I didn't have anything else I would use a .22 short. The .380 has killed quite a few people over it's history, but I don't know about the people hit with a .38 that still shot back. With new ammo, the .380 is better than it was. If I couldn't handle a 9mm I'd use a .380, but I can so I use a 9mm. I don't feel like I need to go with a .40.

If I don't have a 9mm I'd use a J frame .38+P revolver.

Either way for me.

 

[rwsmith]

That's true but....

JMO, I seriously doubt that you get reliable expansion out of two inches in .38+p. I also doubt you get any more power out of .327 with a two inch tube than you would just from going to the lighter bullet in .38+p. OTOH my .327 definitly has one more hole in the cylinder.

Some ammo,like Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel is designed to expand at lower velocities.

 

[getoff]

Yep.



It's okay to say "Smith & Wesson" and "Glock" on this forum. Really, it is.



Well, since you brought up the reload thing, I'll say this. I don't put much stock in capability for quick reloads, whether it's with the .380 or the .38. Reason being I don't belive you're going to get into an extended gunfight or a pitched battle with your personal defense handgun, whatever it is. If you're in a situation where you're expecting real trouble, you aren't going to be carrying a .38 or .380 in the first place. Just my opinion, you understand. I'm sure there are a bunch of people here who'll loudly disagree with that. That's fine with me.



Uh-oh.

Do we really want to get into carrying a gun in the post office again?

Pick some other location. Please. The drugstore, maybe. Or Walmart. Everyone loves threads about carrying guns in Walmart.



Quite simply...yes. If you've been carrying for twenty-five years, you shouldn't have to ask advice on what/how to carry. From anyone.

it stays in the car when on usps property... just an example of a short trip from the house.

 

[getoff]

simply put, i know the 442 is the better option. reloads aren't a speed issue as much as possible fix for a malfunction. i went out for dinner with my daughter and took my trusty J. i have cor-bon .380 and glasser power ball. i know the limitations of both calibers as i and my merry band of fools have shot all manner of stuff with lots of ammo from the usual suspects. not scientific, but we see and debate what we see. not saying the G42 i own will replace my J frame anything, just that its an easy go to. shot placement stops threats, not magic or luck. i shoot as much as possible, and carry a G19 more than anything else i own. that more than anything else tilts me to the 42...