.38sp and 442 Load help

[C.S.63]

I Am getting back in to reloading and am seeking some help or recomendations
I recently purchased some cci small pistol primers and will load w231 at 4.0 grains
for a 158 swc any thoughts on this load in the 442. (starting load in speer #11 manual)
How does CCI primers compare to winchester
I have never used CCI and that is all I can find now. I only used winchester small and large pistol primers previously (exclusively)
sorry for being long winded

Thanks
Carl

 

[C.S.63]

I Am getting back in to reloading and am seeking some help or recomendations
I recently purchased some cci small pistol primers and will load w231 at 4.0 grains
for a 158 swc any thoughts on this load in the 442. (starting load in speer #11 manual)
How does CCI primers compare to winchester
I have never used CCI and that is all I can find now. I only used winchester small and large pistol primers previously (exclusively)
sorry for being long winded

Thanks
Carl

 

[Skip Sackett]

Glad to have you on the site and in this part of the forum!

Your question made me do some searching. I went to the Hodgdon data website to check what they say about the load you posted.

Here is what I found:
158 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .358" 1.475" 3.1 782 11,900 CUP 3.7 834 14,600 CUP

Seems that their maximum load is only 3.7gr. Your load is a little over their suggested maximum. You do what you want but in that little revolver, I would NOT use a load over maximum suggested by the powder manufacturer, especially to start!

CCI primers are a little harder than Winchesters. Frame mounted firing pin firearms have had some problems getting them to touch off. You may not have that problem. Load a few and try them, just not at the powder weight you first posted!

Start low and work your way up. Cardinal rule for reloaders, don't violate it!

 

[duckloads]

I've only been reloading handgun ammo for 6 months or so. After 2k to 3k rounds, the ONLY single FTF I had was with a Winchester SP primer in a 38 spl. I cycled it back around and it fired. My CCI's in various calibers have always gone boom.

 

[OKFC05]

In an unmodified stock gun, 99+% of the time a primer that fires on the second try did not have the primer anvil seated firmly against the bottom of the primer pocket. The first strike seats it and the second fires it. Slight physical irregularity in a primer may make it difficult to seat.

The March/April issue of USPSA's FRONT SIGHT magazine has an excellent Guy Neill article on primer problems.

 

[C.S.63]

Smith Crazy
thank you, I went to the speer #11 manual and that was there starting load, I will look further and see what I come up with. The CCI
primers still have me thinking. Unfortunatley they were the only ones I could find
Thanks everyone
Carl

 

[acl864]

Nice gun. I picked up a 642 back in October. I've been using CCI primers exclusively and never had a failure to fire. My favorite W231 load for that gun with a 158 gr. SWC is the minimum 3.1 gr. I'm still getting used to the gun- especially the small grip. I'm sure I'll bump up the load as I get more practiced with this firearm.

 

[C.S.63]

Thanks,
I am new to the airweights and want to be able to use it for my ccw. Problem is I only have
about 80 rounds of my 125 FED NYCLADS left and I do not wish to burn through them so I will have to load up some range fodder thanks again for the info.
Carl

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use the same load, 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC. I have used both CCI and Winchester SPP in that load and I don't see a bit of difference between the two. Don't worry about using CCI primers in that load, they will work just like the Win primers...

 

[nitesite]

Carl,

Whatever safe load you decide to go with, I think you're on the right track to use 158-gr LSWCs in your 442 for plinking, practice and even personal defense.

If your revolver doesn't have a lightened mainspring, the CCIs ought to do just fine.

 

[Alk8944]

C.S.

Really just a comment. Data changes over time and from source to source. My personal feeling is that manufacturers data takes precedence over re-loading component manufacturers data.

You say you are using Speer #11 data which dates back to 1987. The general recommendation is to use only current data, the manual publishers all give this advice in their books. Totally aside from the published data on the Hodgdon web site, and Hodgdon is the current distributor of both Winchester and IMR propellents, here is what I found and the source. Please note that all of this information is newer than Speer #11 which I cite first for comparison.

All bullets are 158 LSWC, powder 231:

Speer #11; Start 4.0 Max 4.4

Speer #13; Start 3.8 Max 4.3

Winchester manual #14 (1994);
Start 4.0 Max 4.5

Winchester manual dated 2006;
Start none Max 3.7

Note that 2006 was after Hodgdon became the distributor, and the data matches their web-site.

It does look like your 4.0 agrees with all but the most recent data, and why that was reduced so much is not known, but probably due to pressure measuring method.

 

[C.S.63]

I would like to thank everyone again I will work
from the starting load from the hodgdon manual
and work up slowly
Thanks agai
Carl

 

[RON in PA]

First I have never noticed any practical difference between CCI and Winchester primers of the same size, both large and small.

My standard load for the 38 special for many years has been 4.4 grains of 231 under a 158 grain lead bullet and this was based on Speer and Winchester manuals. 4.7 grains of 231 was supposed to be +P level.

If you are new to an Airweight J frame I'd load on the light side as in my experience these are guns that need to be shot with regularity to obtain proficiency and they are uncomfortable to shoot for most.

 

[Skip Sackett]

It does look like your 4.0 agrees with all but the most recent data, and why that was reduced so much is not known, but probably due to pressure measuring method.

No offense but, hogwash. Pressure testing methods haven't changed in that amount of time. Earlier, yes. The reason is simple. Call Speer, CCI and ask them why they publish the data they do now.

One technician, smart-alec as he was, told me they had to provide information to the lowest common denominator, the reloading ignoramus.

I, and I know this is the battle of the ages, believe it is much more a function of "dumbing down" of the data for litigious reasons. "They just keep making smarter idiots", so to speak.

If you were talking about data from the 1960s compared to the 1980s, I would agree. Late 1980 to present, not an issue.

 

[Dan Cash]

Don't sweat the CCIs. What ever brand you use, be sure to fully seat the primer and it will go bang. In a short barrel hand gun, you will not notice any difference in performance from one brand to another.

 

[acl864]

FWIW- In my M642 a 148 gr. BBWC with 3.7 gr. of 231 and a CCI 500 primer just produced an average velocity of 705 fps.