Smith and Wesson Model 41 going 10-7

[armorer951]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I just watched a video (Youtube) from Smith and Wesson on the Model 41. The company is announcing that the Model 41 will be discontinued at the end of the year. Anyone have any further details on this??



Carter

 

[1Celticfozzie]

I just saw S&W FB post. Guess I need to buy another one soon.

 

[Tom S.]

I have four and two of those were purchased simply because I couldn't pass up the price. S&W made so many of these through the years that I doubt the supply will dry up very soon.

 

[moonsterman]

What a shame !

 

[Jerry in SC]

Wow, it is a shame. Glad I have one….

 

[T44spl]

While this is sad news and a sad ending to a fine pistol; it really is Not that surpising given that S&W just no longer has the skilled craftsmen to assemble and fit a precision handfitted target pistol. Even in their vaunted custom shop they don't have the skilled labor to work on these guns.
So apparently management has come to this decision. Those of us who follow the trilogy of the model 41 have seen how shooters and collectors shy away from the more recent manufacture model 41 and gravitate to the older guns. Also look up all the members who have returned guns to the factory multiple times to have issues "fixed" and the Inability of the factory to repair them.

 

[Rick H.]

There is no arguing that newer M-41's have issues, but is the pistol really that bad? Seems to me I have read a lot of posts where owners are having issues with their older M-41's too, so I wouldn't be too quick to burn just the new ones.

Truth is we really don't know what the warranty return rate is for new M-41 pistols and we don't know how many new owners are happy with their purchase. I took the bait once from so-called experts and bought a vintage M-41 and it was one of the worst decisions of my shooting life. It immediately had issues that cost me a bunch trying to correct all to no improvement. I sold that pistol at a loss and swore off ever buying another M-41. But a few years later S&W came out with the PC-M-41 and I fell in love with it and bought one. Unfortunately it too developed a problem and had to go back to the Mothership once and ONLY once. It was repaired and I had the pistol back in a few weeks and it has performed well ever since. I even had the barrel threaded so I could put a suppressor on the pistol and it is without a doubt the most enjoyable .22 pistol I own.

Here's the rub though. Every time some unknowing individual comes to this forum and others, looking for advice on purchasing a M-41 what are they told? Almost universally they are told to "buy old, buy vintage, but never buy new". And then a bunch of others chime in saying the same thing. People, especially people looking for purchase information, listen to this worldly advice and sales on new ones tanks out. How long can a company manufacture a product if it isn't selling to expectation? The only way for the factory to counter this is to raise the price of said item trying to keep it in production. I think I paid about $1,200.00 for my PC M-41 5 or so years ago and now they retail for $2,400.00. Quite an increase over that time, but not unexpected when potential customers are being driven away en-masse by the so-called faithful.

The end result is every time a potential customer is told don't buy a new one, it was a nail in the coffin of the M-41, so there should be many people here happy to discover the M-41 is being discontinued. You got your wish and now people will never be able to buy a new one. Even dealers don't as a rule stock these pistols anymore because they languish on the shelves. And truth be told there are no other .22 pistols made in the USA that compare to a M-41. One can force a pistol like a Ruger to mimic the performance of a M-41, but it will never BE a M-41. I have a Ruger MKIV that has all the mods done to it to make it "better", but it will never match my PC M-41 in feel and use.

I used to counter the individuals that said "never buy new", but after a while I felt like the little boy and the dike. Just too many holes to plug. So I for one will be saddened by the loss of the Model 41. It's a great pistol with a storied history and it is quite possibly the last vestige of a precision .22 cal pistol made in the USA. While the "new" one I bought had an initial problem, the factory warranty took care of it in a reasonable amount of time. Now I can honestly say looking at the Smith and Wesson web site there is nothing to see there.

Rick H.

 

[chief38]

Yes, it is unfortunate to see it go. I guess they just could not compete with the other .22 target pistols on the market at 1/3 the price. I love my vintage circa 1979 M41 and have shot it in competitions, practice sessions and just or fun for 46 years! It still runs and shoots like the day I bought it - maybe better! Not that I am saying the other brands and models are as well built, look better or are better pistols - it's just comes down to raw price that most people are willing to pony up for a .22 pistol.

I have recommended the Ruger Mark IV to many people over the last few years and they bought one along with a Volquartsen drop in target trigger kit which brought the entire package to about $650 or so. They could just not afford the almost $2K for a M41. For that money you get a reliable, very very accurate pistol with a 2 pound, glass break trigger pull. OK - the Ruger is a much cheaper metal frame gun and not nearly as finely finished however it will shoot just as well as a M41 as far as accuracy is concerned and comes with Ruger's great customer service. Spare magazines are readily available for about $20 bucks and they work flawlessly out of the package - unlike the spare mag's for the M41. After many years of production Ruger finally got their stuff together and made the Mark IV easy and quick to take down to clean - long overdue! The Ruger Mark IV is also a lot less ammo sensitive than our coveted M41's are - that's for sure! From what I have seen, while they like some ammo better than others as far as accuracy is concerned, they usually function just fine with almost any brand and weight rimfire 22 cartridge.

Most of the shooters I instruct are not really interested in any particular gun company, model or competing in shooting matches, they simply want to target shoot with a reliable, accurate and easy to maintain target pistol. The Mark IV fits that need without the need to spend close to $2K. In order for S&W to keep making the M41, it MUST be a superior pistol in all respects, including customer service, ease of buying and using new magazines and must do things better than the competition in order to justify triple the cost.

I suppose even though they are planning to discontinue the M41, if consumer demand warrants it, they can always bring it back like on a limited run basis as many gun company's usually do at some point after discontinuing a popular model. Quite honestly, I am actually surprised the M41 made it this far - mainly because of the ever increasing price and waning QC they have been shipped with.

That said, it was an exceptionally nice .22 target pistol, arguably the best in its day. Like anything else we buy - in order to command top dollar a company that makes it must provide the bests product to justify the price. I guess in today's market it did not at 3 times the price.

 

[72AV8R]

That explains why there was no Model 41 at the S & W booth at the NRA show in Atlanta.

 

[chief38]

There is also another factor or two that has affected S&W's sales of new M41's. That is the fact that many M41 owners (or our families) have been selling model 41's as we age out and pass away. Many of he used vintage M41's have been kept in great shape too! This in turn has kept sales of newly made pistols lower. Plus, it is generally agreed and accepted that the vintage pistols are far superior in many ways at almost half the price of a new one. This phenomenon coupled with many new shooters being focused only on less expensive, SD based type guns is an important factor as well. I RARELY see a younger shooter doing precision target shooting these days. They are usually just rapidly blasting away at silhouette targets and are happy if they hit anywhere in the black.

 

[Moo Moo]

In Australia, at least in my experience, with the typical Target Shooting offered at most pistol clubs, the Model 41 costs around the same price compared with Walther, Hammerli, FAS, Pardini, and other European .22lr target pistols. Competitions are usually ISSF Olympic style with the likes of Free Pistol, Rapid-Fire, Sports Pistol, and Standard Pistol. Whilst I do own a Model 41, my old Pardini .22lr is still the handgun I use in these matches.

 

[Bald1]

While this is sad news and a sad ending to a fine pistol; it really is Not that surpising given that S&W just no longer has the skilled craftsmen to assemble and fit a precision handfitted target pistol. Even in their vaunted custom shop they don't have the skilled labor to work on these guns.
So apparently management has come to this decision. Those of us who follow the trilogy of the model 41 have seen how shooters and collectors shy away from the more recent manufacture model 41 and gravitate to the older guns. Also look up all the members who have returned guns to the factory multiple times to have issues "fixed" and the Inability of the factory to repair them.

I think this is overstated, and has been for a while. The workers assemble the guns. They are not "hand crafted". There was simply no demand. If S&W could sell them, they'd keep them in production. I don't believe the quality was its demise. It was the price point vs the competition such as Ruger.

 

[tomahawk223]

While this is sad news and a sad ending to a fine pistol; it really is Not that surpising given that S&W just no longer has the skilled craftsmen to assemble and fit a precision handfitted target pistol. Even in their vaunted custom shop they don't have the skilled labor to work on these guns.
So apparently management has come to this decision. Those of us who follow the trilogy of the model 41 have seen how shooters and collectors shy away from the more recent manufacture model 41 and gravitate to the older guns. Also look up all the members who have returned guns to the factory multiple times to have issues "fixed" and the Inability of the factory to repair them.

Could not agree more, the loss of skilled labor is the number one killer of what were once quality businesses. The reason for the loss of skilled labor is because the industry feels it too expensive to backfill retiree positions and take the time to train new tradesmen. you can observe this in any modern industry, take building construction, look at any old 19th and early 20th century stone church and compare it to a modern built one. The stone masons who built the early ones will never exist again. everything is pre-manufactured and assembled on site. real gunsmiths are going that way, seems all they do is assemble a rifle from parts delivered to your mailbox.

 

[Revoman]

Sad day for S&W and us. I just looked and the retail price is up about $600.00 from earlier this year. I know no one is paying full retail but that seems nuts.

 

[Golddollar]

I'm now really glad that I bit the bullet (ha ha) and bought the 4 Model 41s I have now. I was lucky to find some pretty good deals over time. I have no plans to sell any of them. I have two younger cousins who shoot bullseye with me and I just modified my will to leave mine to them.

 

[chief38]

There night be a few NIB / old stock M41's lurking around in LGS. I'm sure there are still a bunch of vintage used ones there too. If someone really has a hankering for one, now's the time! BUT..... if the demand surges, they can always tool back up and make a limited run.

 

[barnetmill]

There is no arguing that newer M-41's have issues, but is the pistol really that bad? Seems to me I have read a lot of posts where owners are having issues with their older M-41's too, so I wouldn't be too quick to burn just the new ones.

Truth is we really don't know what the warranty return rate is for new M-41 pistols and we don't know how many new owners are happy with their purchase. I took the bait once from so-called experts and bought a vintage M-41 and it was one of the worst decisions of my shooting life. It immediately had issues that cost me a bunch trying to correct all to no improvement. I sold that pistol at a loss and swore off ever buying another M-41. But a few years later S&W came out with the PC-M-41 and I fell in love with it and bought one. Unfortunately it too developed a problem and had to go back to the Mothership once and ONLY once. It was repaired and I had the pistol back in a few weeks and it has performed well ever since. I even had the barrel threaded so I could put a suppressor on the pistol and it is without a doubt the most enjoyable .22 pistol I own.

Here's the rub though. Every time some unknowing individual comes to this forum and others, looking for advice on purchasing a M-41 what are they told? Almost universally they are told to "buy old, buy vintage, but never buy new". And then a bunch of others chime in saying the same thing. People, especially people looking for purchase information, listen to this worldly advice and sales on new ones tanks out. How long can a company manufacture a product if it isn't selling to expectation? The only way for the factory to counter this is to raise the price of said item trying to keep it in production. I think I paid about $1,200.00 for my PC M-41 5 or so years ago and now they retail for $2,400.00. Quite an increase over that time, but not unexpected when potential customers are being driven away en-masse by the so-called faithful.

The end result is every time a potential customer is told don't buy a new one, it was a nail in the coffin of the M-41, so there should be many people here happy to discover the M-41 is being discontinued. You got your wish and now people will never be able to buy a new one. Even dealers don't as a rule stock these pistols anymore because they languish on the shelves. And truth be told there are no other .22 pistols made in the USA that compare to a M-41. One can force a pistol like a Ruger to mimic the performance of a M-41, but it will never BE a M-41. I have a Ruger MKIV that has all the mods done to it to make it "better", but it will never match my PC M-41 in feel and use.

I used to counter the individuals that said "never buy new", but after a while I felt like the little boy and the dike. Just too many holes to plug. So I for one will be saddened by the loss of the Model 41. It's a great pistol with a storied history and it is quite possibly the last vestige of a precision .22 cal pistol made in the USA. While the "new" one I bought had an initial problem, the factory warranty took care of it in a reasonable amount of time. Now I can honestly say looking at the Smith and Wesson web site there is nothing to see there.

Rick H.

Fortunately my M41 purchase about 2000 has always functioned 100% with CCI SV ammunition. I would not buy a used one without putting a few full mags through the gun.