3913 with cracked frame

[BelAir56]

I must give kudos to S&W, when I contacted them they asked me to send them the piece, they called me and said because of its age (s/n TJB 83XX) no parts available, the next thing he said was they would give me a new 9mm, I chose a Shield. I hope for some kind of help but sure didn`t expect a new piece. Now waiting for production to catch up. S&W are the best.
I now have 5 Mags,3 ProMag SMI 02 and 2 S&W for sale, looking at $100.00 for the 5.

 

[HCH]

Good deal. I'm curious as to how the 3913 failed. Can you post a picture please?

 

[66snub]

I am curious about this too. I realize the utility and necessity of an alloy frame (I own several), but have always been dubious about their actual strength and longevity.

 

[BelAir56]

Pictures

not good at putting up picts, someone give me an email address and I`ll send, broke to the right of the takedown pin, perfect place as it transitions from very thin machined area to pretty thick.

 

[DCW]

Time For Spring Cleaning

First, I'd like to recognize S&W's dedication to its family. When something of that nature goes down it only endears the folks who cut the paychecks for those who work at Smith & Wesson. Thanks!

I participated in BelAir 56's (my first "passenger" vehicle, BTW) first go 'round on these boards concerning that break in the 3913.

Now, let's turn to that 3913: While I didn't think of it then, it later occurred to me - while doing some "spring" cleaning (replacing, too) - that, yes, a particularly vulnerable area exists in the immediate vicinity of the slide stop. There's a lot, and I mean a lot of slamming going on thereabouts when the 3913, and a lot of other S&Ws, too, are sending rounds downrange.

I'm willing to bet at least some readers know where this is going so I needn't spend much more of your time, but it is for this sort of reason that Tactical Springs & Machine Gunners Lube and Wolff Gunsprings - Firearm Springs for Semi-Auto Pistols, Revolvers, Rifles, & Shotguns exist.

Recoil guide rod springs easily cycle longer and with their movement (nearly every "performance" handgun focuses on improvements in this area) its stored and released energies are just plain huge as compared to any other spring in the same handgun.

Having "lighter" and "heavier" springs on either side of the "standard factory" spring, and as is evidenced in most replacement recoil guide rod spring replacement offers, even at http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=recoil+guide+rod+spring&ksubmit=y (the link takes the clicker to the first of FIVE pages of recoil springs), there are serious numbers of recoil springs out there at retail.

And who among us hasn't gone into a field somewhere and stripped? (Um, the gun, that is.)

It's THAT easy to replace a recoil spring.

Later.

DC

P.S. I think Sprinco (whose web-code writer could've been a little less, um, er, let's just say he or she could've spent a little more time on naming the URLs) does the best job of explaining each (or, at least, most) of its springs and the probable impact on the gun - as well as its user. Go to the above, look around. It won't be hard to find. If you need guidance, call Alan and tell him DC sent you.

 

[BelAir56]

Cracked frame on 3913

hope this works, first try at a pict.

 

[DanP7]

What's wrong with the factory spring rates?

 

[MichiganScott]

Nothing is wrong with the factory springs. It's just that sometimes a pistol may operate better with a different rate spring depending on ammunition. My M&P literally dribbles out empty cases when I shoot WW white box. They land at my feet.

However, different rate springs have their own problems. If you install a stronger spring to control the slide impact on the frame when shooting +P ammo, the slide velocity will be faster when it returns to battery. The increased velocity on the slide's return causes increased wear on different parts of the gun. There ain't no free lunch.

 

[DanP7]

Thanks.

I'll stick with factory. Personally, I don't care where wwb cases lands as long as it extracts because it's cheap range ammo. I only shoot enough +P to test a self defense load for cycling, so frame battering isn't a concern. I'm no engineer, so I'll put my faith in S&W's engineers before playing musical springs. If I was going to shoot a lot of +P ammo or powderpuff reloads for whatever reason, I doubt I'd be even considering using my 3913 anyways. Changing springs out to match whatever ammo velocity I think is best for the gun, ventures way too far into that territory of tinkering that gave 1911's a bad name. But, to your point, all of that depends on how much you actually know about the springs rates and the gun.

My lasting point is simply that most people don't have the knowledge to play with different springs, and should just stick to ammo that is relatively close to the largest percentile of velocity and weight of commercial loads. The handful of cracked frame third gens that have shown up here and elsewhere over the past six months have me wondering if the owner was playing with spring rates, rather than simply neglecting them entirely. (There was one super high round count .40s&w steel frame gun that IMO was cracked due to the factory recoil spring being worn out)

 

[OFT II]

Nothing is wrong with the factory springs. It's just that sometimes a pistol may operate better with a different rate spring depending on ammunition. My M&P literally dribbles out empty cases when I shoot WW white box. They land at my feet.

That just makes it easier to pick up your brass.

 

[HCH]

hope this works, first try at a pict.

Thanks. That's what I wanted to see.

 

[66snub]

A good argument to keep those springs rotated out regularly. Recoil springs are cheap, receivers aren't.

 

[BelAir56]

3913 springs

I used factory springs, replaced one time.

 

[S&W38]

Back in the 1970's, the late "Skeeter" Skelton wrote at least two marathon endurance test articles for Shooting Times Magazine. One article featured a S&W Model 59 and about 10,000 rounds of factory 9x19 ammo. I believe one of the M-59's frame ramps broke after about 9500 rounds. The other article featured a Colt Lightweight Commander .45 and 10,000 rounds of factory .45 ACP ammo. The Colt's frame cracked just above the slide stop pin after about 9000 rounds. Skelton's test arms were fired rapidly, but the test firing lasted a week or two for each pistol.

Skelton's efforts bore no resemblance to the continuous rapid-fire intensity of the later Handgun Digest endurance tests.

In the 1970's, it was assumed by most of us handgun shooters that aluminum frame service pistols were intended to be carried a lot and fired just enough to maintain familiarity and competency. Jeff Cooper himself clearly advised that role for Colt's Lightweight Commander 45, with intense practice being reserved to steel frame versions of the Colt 1911 platform. Most of us consumers assumed that frequent firing of an aluminum frame pistol meant recognizing its new status as a tool that would wear out sooner, much sooner, than its steel counterpart.

My guess is that the S&W M-39 under discussion served its full expected lifetime. I am neither engineer nor metallurgist, so I'm offering only an ordinary user's opinion.

 

[AgentM]

I saw a few 3913 frame cracks when we issued S&W's. They were always in the vicinity of the slide release lever. Weapons that were kept clean and properly lubricated were less likely to experience this failure, as were weapons whose recoil springs were changed every few thousand rounds. I put MANY Cor-Bon 115gr. +P rounds through my 3913 without frame failure. Trigger play spring failure, yes, but frame cracks, no!

Alloy-frame guns won't last forever, regardless of what ammo you use. +P marginally hastens their demise. Me? I'll be shooting +P in my S&W 3953 until things start falling out of it. If I can't fix them, I'll buy another gun.

I say S&W should keep the SW3953/6946 in-production!

 

[DanP7]

Back in the 1970's, the late "Skeeter" Skelton wrote at least two marathon endurance test articles for Shooting Times Magazine. One article featured a S&W Model 59 and about 10,000 rounds of factory 9x19 ammo. I believe one of the M-59's frame ramps broke after about 9500 rounds. The other article featured a Colt Lightweight Commander .45 and 10,000 rounds of factory .45 ACP ammo. The Colt's frame cracked just above the slide stop pin after about 9000 rounds. Skelton's test arms were fired rapidly, but the test firing lasted a week or two for each pistol.

Skelton's efforts bore no resemblance to the continuous rapid-fire intensity of the later Handgun Digest endurance tests.

In the 1970's, it was assumed by most of us handgun shooters that aluminum frame service pistols were intended to be carried a lot and fired just enough to maintain familiarity and competency. Jeff Cooper himself clearly advised that role for Colt's Lightweight Commander 45, with intense practice being reserved to steel frame versions of the Colt 1911 platform. Most of us consumers assumed that frequent firing of an aluminum frame pistol meant recognizing its new status as a tool that would wear out sooner, much sooner, than its steel counterpart.

My guess is that the S&W M-39 under discussion served its full expected lifetime. I am neither engineer nor metallurgist, so I'm offering only an ordinary user's opinion.

Nobody seems to worry about Sig Sauer's aluminum frames that have been in use since the 70's. When we start talking about colts and smiths, all of a sudden they are not food enough.

 

[Fastbolt]

Sig revised and improved their aluminum frames toward back at the beginning of the 90's for much the same reason.

 

[rrockefe]

This is very similar to my 3913 cracked frame. I've since had a gunsmith find a LadySmith of same vintage, which I bought, and he changed out the frame, trigger parts which I liked better from mine and all is well. I now have a fine 3913 with a spare-parts gun for future use if needed. Although I am considering trading this pair for a 3" J frame if I can find one. (I like revolvers)

 

[sniper47]

I must give kudos to S&W, when I contacted them they asked me to send them the piece, they called me and said because of its age (s/n TJB 83XX) no parts available, the next thing he said was they would give me a new 9mm, I chose a Shield. I hope for some kind of help but sure didn`t expect a new piece. Now waiting for production to catch up. S&W are the best.
I now have 5 Mags,3 ProMag SMI 02 and 2 S&W for sale, looking at $100.00 for the 5.

Same thing happened to me a couple of years ago.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/302824-cracked-5906-frame.html

 

[BelAir56]

3913 cracked frame

I have my eyes open for a decent priced 3913, I`d buy another in a heartbeat. In the meantime I pick up my Shield the 17th, fired one this weekend and got on target pretty quick with it. Thanks for all the response`s to my posting. Mel