3913TSW versus the "Grip Zone"

[GaryS]

As most of you know, I made TTSH sad when I bought a Springfield XDE 9mm. I think he was worried that I'd fall out of love with my 3rd Gens.

Such is not the case. The XDE was bought to be a travel gun that will be easy and relatively inexpensive to replace if "something" happens to it when I'm on a trip down south.

Right now, I have around $450.00 into the gun including a spare magazine, Clinger holsters, and some cut to fit grip tape.

Not all that expensive for a TDA 9mm single stack and accessories.

My first trip to the range was a while back to see what weight of ammunition the gun preferred. At the time, it really didn't seem to matter. 115gr, 124gr, or 147gr all seemed to go through the gun and hit the target with acceptable accuracy.

That got me to thinking. My pre rail 3913TSW doesn't like 115gr ammunition. It shoots way low compared to 124gr or 147gr. At least that's how it always behaved.

A week or so ago, I read a post here about the point of aim of the Novak sights on the 3rd Gens. It seems that the white dot is supposed to cover the intended target. Which seems kind of odd, but I guess it's so.

As it happens, I have Mepro Light night sights, but I wondered if the same thing applies. That was part of today's testing too.

I'm almost there folks, hang in.

So, today it was off to the range for a side by side comparison test.

I took a box of UMC 115gr, a box of Blazer Brass 124gr, and a box of American Eagle 147gr. All rounds are FMJ.

I put 25 rounds of each box into B29 targets at about 25 feet.

Keep in mind that I don't get to the range nearly as often as I should. My groups are not timed, fired from a rest, or anything but two hand using a triangular stance.

Note that the tendency to pull to the right side of the target is all me. If I take my time and really think through the process, that goes away. Well, for the most part.

First up was the XDE with the 115gr ammunition. To my surprise the ammunition did not perform as well as my previous test. Not horrible, but more spread than I'd previously seen.

Not bad, but the pull is obvious. I'd call this acceptable for self defense shooting at close range.

The 3913TSW was up next. To my surprise aiming with the top of the site a bit higher up corrected the low hit situation I'd seen before. There was a bit more spread of the shots, but more of them hit the center ring. Not that I expect to go back to 115 gr for this gun, but I don't have to be scared of it either.

Next up the XDE with 124gr ammunition.

A couple of down and out fliers in the first magazine, for reasons unknown. Again, once I bore down a bit and spent time on the fundamentals accuracy improved.

Still a bit of pull to the right, but not bad.

Interestingly, at least to me, the 3913TSW didn't do quite as well as the XDE. At least in terms of consistency. A few more X ring hits than with the XDE, but more spread of hits. Again, acceptable, but I can do better with more practice and attention on fundamentals. (That seems to be a theme)

On to the XDE with 147gr ammunition.

Some spread, but more hits on center than with the other ammunition. Overall, pretty good, or at least pretty average.

Last up, the 3913TSW with 147 gr ammunition.

I think this is the best grouping of all of the tests. I take no credit for this, I just think that the gun was designed around this weight of bullet.

Reasonably good accuracy overall. I carry 147gr JHP for self defense, which I think is the best round to use.

Final thoughts. The XDE is a very nice handgun, but it's not a 3rd Gen. One of my excuses for some of the shot placement is that it's considerably lighter than the 3913TSW. Not that that gun is heavy, but the alloy frame does add some weight and at least for me that improves balance.

The controls on both guns are similar. The XDE has a thinner profile, which some people don't like. I like it because it aids with concealability. I've had some thinning done on the TSW, and it's much better than as it came out of the factory.

I'm sure that when I get the XDE to the range more often, I'll get used to the balance. Recoil is very manageable, so the lighter weight doesn't hurt in that regard.

I prefer the TSW, but won't be embarrassed to carry the XDE when I'm on the road.

 

[TTSH]

As most of you know, I made TTSH sad when I bought a Springfield XDE 9mm. I think he was worried that I'd fall out of love with my 3rd Gens.

Ha!!! Not at all! I'm enjoying this! I've managed to pick-up several new (to me) 3rd Gens since you went plastic on us!

Might have even gotten in line for that "Shorty9" as well (since you didn't want it), but the logistics were all wrong that week.

Only member I have to fear now is the Jeppo. Thank God he is 700 miles away!

I prefer the TSW, but won't be embarrassed to carry the XDE when I'm on the road.

No worries! Just keep that "Grip Zone" moniker hidden under the grip tape and you'll be fine.

 

[GaryS]

As we've discussed, my wants for 3rd Gens are fairly narrow right now. CS9, 457S, maybe a 3913 that can be converted to DAO.

There are some nice double stack DAO guns around here and there, but they aren't all that interesting to me.

I think this will be it for plastic frame guns. It serves a specific purpose, and I think it will do that quite well. Like all polymer framed guns, it's a thing to like, but not love.

Gary

Ha!!! Not at all! I'm enjoying this! I've managed to pick-up several new (to me) 3rd Gens since you went plastic on us!

Might have even gotten in line for that "Shorty9" as well (since you didn't want it), but the logistics were all wrong that week.

Only member I have to fear now is the Jeppo. Thank God he is 700 miles away!


No worries! Just keep that "Grip Zone" moniker hidden under the grip tape and you'll be fine.

 

[TTSH]

As we've discussed, my wants for 3rd Gens are fairly narrow right now. CS9, 457S, maybe a 3913 that can be converted to DAO.

There are some nice double stack DAO guns around here and there, but they aren't all that interesting to me.

I think this will be it for plastic frame guns. It serves a specific purpose, and I think it will do that quite well. Like all polymer framed guns, it's a thing to like, but not love.

Gary

The sad part is that I'm pretty much done with 3rd Gen collecting for the foreseeable future... or at least I'm trying to be good in that regard... so it doesn't really help out all that much that you have gone plastic on us! I'm searching for pre-IL revolvers now, although that search is frustrating as Hell. Hence my occasional snagging of another 3rd Gen here and there to feed my addiction.

Next MA gun show is in 9 days. The good wife is out of town all weekend so I can spend the whole day or even both days. I'm broke, but I will still be there. Thank God for cash advances and credit cards!!!

Back on topic: Glad you are solving the mystery of the different 9mm bullet weights. My own experimentation resumes next week. In fact, I am going to that certain local range today to renew my membership.

 

[WTN1271]

"A week or so ago, I read a post here about the point of aim of the Novak sights on the 3rd Gens. It seems that the white dot is supposed to cover the intended target. Which seems kind of odd, but I guess it's so. "


I also dislike the "cover the target" hold and prefer at "target" hold for most applications. When using my 3rd gen pistols on a B29 type target I have adapted a "float the head" hold and find that works nicely. YMMV but it works for me.

 

[GaryS]

I'm not sure what you mean by "float the head", but what I've done is aim at the "9" above the X ring. That seems to work pretty well with 115gr. With 124 or 147, I don't have to aim that much higher to get good results.

"A week or so ago, I read a post here about the point of aim of the Novak sights on the 3rd Gens. It seems that the white dot is supposed to cover the intended target. Which seems kind of odd, but I guess it's so. "


I also dislike the "cover the target" hold and prefer at "target" hold for most applications. When using my 3rd gen pistols on a B29 type target I have adapted a "float the head" hold and find that works nicely. YMMV but it works for me.

 

[Jeppo]

Only member I have to fear now is the Jeppo. Thank God he is 700 miles away!

I'm gonna share a story that may make you chuckle. When it happened, it made me

I do my FFL transfers at a local pawn shop. I was there recently filling out the form when the shop owner asks me over the counter, "Wife out of town again?" I nod and continue checking boxes.

There's another customer at the counter drooling over the guns and he asks the shop owner, "How can you possibly know that?"

The shop owner chuckles and says, "Jeppo's been in here every day this week."

 

[TTSH]

I'm gonna share a story that may make you chuckle. When it happened, it made me

I do my FFL transfers at a local pawn shop. I was there recently filling out the form when the shop owner asks me over the counter, "Wife out of town again?" I nod and continue checking boxes.

There's another customer at the counter drooling over the guns and he asks the shop owner, "How can you possibly know that?"

The shop owner chuckles and says, "Jeppo's been in here every day this week."

Funny that coincidence... the wife being away and many transfers happening. I wouldn't know anything about that. Nope... nothing at all. Sometimes coincidences like that just... happen!

 

[DCW]

Thanks For The Info, Gary

I just took delivery of a case of 147gr ball as well as 100 rds of 147gr JHP, having read up on the FBI's 147 gr preference (The Guns of The FBI, a 2018 Gun Digest release, authored by Bill Vanderpool, who armored the Bureau,

The use of various 9mm loads was undertaken therein and methinks the man could legitimately ask, "What took you so long," because Bureau testing should the 147gr 9mm round to be the best under real world conditions.

And that brings us to , , , what's the deal on 10mm?

One would think the sudden interest in a caliber that's been around in earnest since the FBI undertok serious consideration of the projectile after the infamous Kendall (Miami suburb) shootout in 1986.

Working with the FBI, Smith & Wesson Model 1076 came into existence as a direct result of some aspects of that gruesome day, during which two Special agents, Jerry Dove and Ben Grogan, were killed.

Author VAnderpool took part in the following inquiry to, as did vanderpool put it, "Not to determine what the Miami agents had done right or wrong, but how their equipment and training t and had performed and what had to be changed.

It was an interesting juxtaposition of the .38 Special, 9mm, 10mm and .45 Auto. And, cutting to the chase, the 9mm 147 grain provided the best stopping power, travel within the body and etc.

It's a decent read (but they need what many publishers need today; a copy editor) given that Smith & Wesson were involved, albeit to a lesser degree than even the FBI wished.

But it seems that right about the same time, S&W was developing the 10mm Corto (aka, .40 S&W) and wished to hold its new round close to the vest despite it being being co-developed by Winchester.

The book covers a lot of good ground and reccommend it. For sure, you'll likely to know more upon walking out.

Later.