4 Bore

[handejector]

Don't remember the TV show.

I'm fairly sure it was Hunter who began with an 8mm for his elephants, but I read his books decades ago. He wrote at least 3, but only Hunter is well known.

I know for a fact he swore by the 577NE, not a 500.

 

[Chromedhearts]

This thread puts to my mind a book that I read years ago called "Flamingo Feather", by an Afrikans author named, van Der Post, I believe.
Good book, about post war Africa, hunting, and revolution...

 

[gatsby]

The 4 bore shotguns like Chuck's were never very common. They were mainly a market hunter's tool used in blinds and boats. Not carried much in the field.

The 4 bore rifles were even less common. They were really more of an evolutionary step in big game rifles as the larger game was encountered by Europeans. You have to remember that VERY few Europeans had been very deep into Africa before the mid 1800's. The Congo was not even established as a Belgian colony till 1890. Those monstrously heavy guns and heavy ammo were not practical for long treks on foot where everything had to be hand carried because the tse-tse killed most beasts of burden.
The 4 bores are really a seldom used approach to the matter. The Black Powder Express rifles came along at about the same time and did an adequate job with far less weight. Baker was one of the first, if not the first, to promote the 577 BPE. It is also known that he had H&H build four 10 bore rifles for his elephant hunting. I think that Baby was not his everyday rifle.
People also realized that the modern bolt guns like mausers would do for the poor man that could not afford the higher grade rifles. John Hunter, as I recall, poached his early elephants with a surplus 8mm Mauser that had a very pitted bore and surplus ball ammo! Being young, dumb, and poor, he just didn't realize it wouldn't work since he was pulling enough dead elephant's teeth to buy fine British doubles in 577 NE.
And then there was Bell, who picked his shots, and killed most of his 1011 elephants with a Rigby 7x57.....

4 bores are rare and not usually a primary weapon although some did use them as such. An expedition to Africa would have contained a battery of guns a 4 bore may have been one of them to be used in "sticky" situations along with a variety of smaller weapons. Stanley carried a 4bore in the 1870's an kept it with him even after losing most of his bearers. Sir Gerald Burrard used an 8 bore Holland rifle and Lord Wolverton used an 8 bore paradox in Africa in the 1890's. I know Holland and Holland sold 4 bore rifles up to and past 1900. Baker used a 7dram 577 bpe a stout load and still needing a gun weighing in at 13lbs. He also continued to carry and recommend a 4 bore with 12 drams of powder if elephant were to be encountered.
I would think the 4 bore configured as a shotgun would have still been useful to a market hunter even after 1900.

 

[boykinlp]

You would have to have an entourage just to carry the ammo!!

 

[Texas Star]

This thread puts to my mind a book that I read years ago called "Flamingo Feather", by an Afrikans author named, van Der Post, I believe.
Good book, about post war Africa, hunting, and revolution...

I read it, too, and some of his other books.

Col. Laurens van der Post was a famous author and a friend of Prince Charles. Although of Dutch (Afrikaans) origin, he was also a master writer in English.

He also wrote an African cookbook, not limited to South African styles. During WW II, he was an advisor to Emperor Haile Selassie in Ethiopa, fighting the italians.

Eventually, he became a POW of the Japanese and wrote a book based on that experience.

One of his books was made into a watered down PC movie version that's still worth watching, "A Story Like the Wind" or a sequel.

"Flamingo Feather" mentioned a fictional tribe, I think. It was a good book. I liked the older man having a Boer War Mauser 7mm.

Many libraries have his books, and Interlibrary Loan may be able to find a copy of, "Flamingo Feather", which appeared in the early 1950's, I think. I was still in elementary school when i first read it, so the time fits. Good book.

 

[Shorty4T]

This is digging up an old thread I know; I came across this thread and found the history lesson as interesting as the guns.

There is much discussion on the 4 bore here; on another forum I frequent there is a 2 bore double build that the gunsmith, Colin Stolzer, is documenting in video. I've been following this build for many months, the rifle is due to be completed next month once the regulation is complete. It seems that many that repied to this thread would be interested in this project:

2 Bore Jones Underlever SxS "The Double Deuce"

Cheers,
San

 

[Texas Star]

This is digging up an old thread I know; I came across this thread and found the history lesson as interesting as the guns.

There is much discussion on the 4 bore here; on another forum I frequent there is a 2 bore double build that the gunsmith, Colin Stolzer, is documenting in video. I've been following this build for many months, the rifle is due to be completed next month once the regulation is complete. It seems that many that repied to this thread would be interested in this project:

2 Bore Jones Underlever SxS "The Double Deuce"

Cheers,
San

Thanks, San. I have no desire to shoot a 2 or 4 bore, but am interested in seeing it done. More interested in the rifles used by the early explorers and those used throughout the British Colonial period.

I have books by the hunters of that day, and Taylor's, "African Rifles and Cartridges", the std. reference on such things. Ruark's African-based novels also told which guns the author saw used in 1950's Kenya.

 

[5-Shot]

Several Sir Samuel Baker books are free on Kindle from Amazon.

Ed

 

[Gamecock]

A 4-bore, at 1.052", is substantially larger than 20mm, ubiquitously referred to as "cannon" in WWII guns. One could argue definitions, but I think the 4-bore qualifies as a cannon.

Also note that 4-bores were generally not shot with round balls, but rather conical bullets weighing a little more than 4 ounces.

 

[Shorty4T]

Thanks, San. I have no desire to shoot a 2 or 4 bore, but am interested in seeing it done. More interested in the rifles used by the early explorers and those used throughout the British Colonial period.

I have books by the hunters of that day, and Taylor's, "African Rifles and Cartridges", the std. reference on such things. Ruark's African-based novels also told which guns the author saw used in 1950's Kenya.

TS, I don't have any interest in shooting something that has this kind of recoil energy even though I do enjoy the larger rifles. The video diary that Colin put together for this rifle is interesting no matter which caliber.

Cheers,
Sam

 

[s&wchad]

I missed this the first time around. Just to put a 4 gauge shell in perspective...

Left to right - .410 bore, 28ga, 24ga, 20ga (old red hull), 12ga, 10ga brass case, 10ga 3-1/2", 8ga and 4ga. I didn't want to unwrap the 32ga box, so it's not shown. 4ga... that'll rock the boat!

 

[Muddyboot]

Iv'e posted these before, but to show how big a blackpowder 4 bore bullet can be, observe these three rounds. left to right. .58 caliber, .72 caliber conical, 4 bore. Yea, it's a monster....