.40 Shield Kaboom

I was just watching a great YouTube video by Mrgunsngear entitled, "40S&W to 9mm Shield Conversion" in which somebody made a comment, "My Shield 40 blew up on me and S&W did nothing to help me."

I then asked him, "Was it hot reloads you were shooting?"

He replied, "No. Federal."


Well it's a well known fact that NO kaboom is EVER caused by reloads. It's usually a magic bullet. The last round in a box. Which was thrown away. Along with all the other casings fired before the kaboom. Or it was a round from a box of mixed factory ammo. Because we all buy mixed types of factory ammo and then throw it together on one big box, right? Or, my favorite from recent past, a 1997 box of 'Factory' .40 S&W Federal ammo that the shooter had on hand even though the Shield was their first .40.

I don't know mrgunsngear from a hole in the wall, but if S&W didn't help him, maybe it was an ammo problem? What did Federal say? Let me guess - didn't ask.
 
Well it's a well known fact that NO kaboom is EVER caused by reloads. It's usually a magic bullet. The last round in a box. Which was thrown away. Along with all the other casings fired before the kaboom. Or it was a round from a box of mixed factory ammo. Because we all buy mixed types of factory ammo and then throw it together on one big box, right? Or, my favorite from recent past, a 1997 box of 'Factory' .40 S&W Federal ammo that the shooter had on hand even though the Shield was their first .40.

I don't know mrgunsngear from a hole in the wall, but if S&W didn't help him, maybe it was an ammo problem? What did Federal say? Let me guess - didn't ask.

Haven't heard of him? You been living under a rock? I thought all gun enthusiasts watched his channel. Anyway, here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ItSsLwKQAk
Why don't you go ahead and ask the dude who's Shield 40 blew up in his hand from shooting Federal ammo. It's about 20 comments down.
 
Haven't heard of him? You been living under a rock? I thought all gun enthusiasts watched his channel. Anyway, here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ItSsLwKQAk

Why don't you go ahead and ask the dude who's Shield 40 blew up in his hand from shooting Federal ammo. It's about 20 comments down.


Wait, I misunderstood. We're taking someone who posted a YouTube / blog comment at face value about a kaboom? I've got a bridge for sale too...

As far as living under a rock, you've seen one awesome operator you've seen them all. Not really my speed.
 
Wait, I misunderstood. We're taking someone who posted a YouTube / blog comment at face value about a kaboom? I've got a bridge for sale too...

As far as living under a rock, you've seen one awesome operator you've seen them all. Not really my speed.

Gone are the days of taking someone at face value? No integrity?
I know, you're selling a bridge to nowhere.
 
Gone are the days of taking someone at face value? No integrity?

I know, you're selling a bridge to nowhere.


So when a seller tells you a gun just has "a box of ammo through it, just a little old lady used to put 6 rounds through it every leap year" you take them at face value, right?
 
I am interested in the facts. Factory ammo, reloads, gun problem?

How does one establish facts? We hear what people tell us happened to them. We either believe them or we think they're lying just to hide the fact they were really shooting reloads so that S&W will take care of them and make it right.
I guess it depends on your faith or lack thereof in your fellow human beings.
Either people are basically good or they're basically lying ***'s.
Don't ask peterthefish, we know what he thinks.
He's already become too jaded by the world.
 
DataChuck

I just got my shield last week and have not fired it yet. This post has to do with calling the right names of parts. I contacted sw for an exploded view (no pun intended) with parts lists they responded with they do not give out that information.
Great!!! What do i call the part and what's the number????
 
I just got my shield last week and have not fired it yet. This post has to do with calling the right names of parts. I contacted sw for an exploded view (no pun intended) with parts lists they responded with they do not give out that information.
Great!!! What do i call the part and what's the number????

I think their thought process is. "The gun has a lifetime warranty, if it quits working, send it in and we'll fix it therefore the owners don't need this information." There are exploded parts diagrams around. There was one that was just recently posted on this site.
 
How does one establish facts? We hear what people tell us happened to them. We either believe them or we think they're lying just to hide the fact they were really shooting reloads so that S&W will take care of them and make it right.

I guess it depends on your faith or lack thereof in your fellow human beings.

Either people are basically good or they're basically lying ***'s.

Don't ask peterthefish, we know what he thinks.

He's already become too jaded by the world.


I don't believe in some oversimplified dichotomy that people are good or evil (or lying asses).

I believe that most people in this world are self-interested. Fortunately, for most people its in their best interest to be decent to their fellow humans, obey the rules society lays out (whether they personally agree) and so on.

But sometimes that self-interest isn't so pretty. For those stricken by extreme poverty with no exit in sight, self interest makes crime appealing. There is little to lose.

Faced with the prospect of a blown up $450 gun some folks might figure, hey, the manufacturer's a big company, let them eat this one (even if I goofed). After all, I'm a loyal customer.

I think that take on the world is resoundingly validated in threads about carrying in facilities which prohibit firearms on premises.

A surprising (to me) number of folks on this board, in another thread, indicated that they would simply ignore the sign (even if it carried force of law). Their self interest in their right to carry a firearm overrides the fact that property rights (where those rights include the ability to lawfully exclude firearms from ones premises) ought to be all but sacrosanct. After all, the second amendment exists in large part to allow us to protect our property rights against others who would not respect them but for force.

I respect property rights of others because I think it's in my self interest to do so, but it never ceases to amaze me how many others will step on your rights out of their own self interest.

To get back on topic, I have read a lot of kaboom threads - used to research every gun I bought meticulously, and I have bought a couple. And my prior note was only very slightly hyperbolic. Find one which goes to resolution (with investigation by manufacturer of firearm and ammo) where the OP states it was definitely no way no how reloads. 98 times out of 100, it was reloads, or gunshow ammo, etc... And those are the ones that get resolved, where the poster has the stones to come forward and admit they were wrong.

Here's the reality. Reloading is not for everyone, and probably not for a lot of people who do it. I imagine a lot of folks get through without issue because they get recipes from experienced reloaders, or get on the right side of things when they deviate from a book. But I was talking to someone a couple weeks ago who was loading 9mm. He was loading a what was an over his books max load of Power Pistol for a 115 gr FMJ JHP. Except he was loading a Berrys 115 gr RN plated (softer so lower load called for) at the OAL given for the JHP. Since the RN projectile is longer than the JHP, the OAL was short and resulted in even higher pressure.

After some discussion, it became clear that he just didn't have a head for the implications of changing some of the book variables. And he's not a dumb guy, and a good shot to boot (although not with that load!).

That (in .40) is the stuff kabooms are made of. And a failure to acknowledge we made a mistake, out of self-interest in preserving our pocket book, or our self image as infallible, is what kaboom threads are made of.

/Rant off.
 
In agreement with your theory of people's guiding principles of self-interest, it is certainly in Smith and Wesson, Federal, and Winchester's self-interest in denying that their guns and ammunition are at fault for these malfunctions. In fact, their interest is much greater than the individual owners and at a much higher monetary value.

I cannot attest to the veracity of the users with exploding firearms being any greater than S&W, Winchester, or Federal and neither can you.
 
In agreement with your theory of people's guiding principles of self-interest, it is certainly in Smith and Wesson, Federal, and Winchester's self-interest in denying that their guns and ammunition are at fault for these malfunctions. In fact, their interest is much greater than the individual owners and at a much higher monetary value..


Maybe if you consider corporate self interest over the span of a day or a month. Corporate self interest usually comes down to profit, and you don't keep the lights on by ignoring product defects and staying the course - at least not for very long. A firm succeeds by learning from mistakes and improving design and manufacture to the most economically efficient point.

One could argue that its actually in their best interest to deny the problem (and associated costs) while improving the product design (cough Glock 23), but even I'm not that cynical :).

I cannot attest to the veracity of the users with exploding firearms being any greater than S&W, Winchester, or Federal and neither can you.


I don't know what that means..?
 
A firm succeeds by learning from mistakes and improving design and manufacture to the most economically efficient point.
Just because they don't admit that their product is at fault doesn't mean they aren't going to improve future products. Deny this one and then fix it so you don't have to deny it again later.

Personally I like the way Federal claimed that 2001gmc had reloads. What a crock! He bought factory ammo that was new in the box. How did reloads end up in a new box?
 
I don't know what that means..?

In other words, we do not know for a fact whether the users experiencing these failures are being 100% truthful when they are claiming that they did not use reloads or whether the firearm and ammunition manufacturers are being truthful when they blame the failure on each other or the users.
 
Personally I like the way Federal claimed that 2001gmc had reloads. What a crock! He bought factory ammo that was new in the box. How did reloads end up in a new box?


Really? Did you read the whole thread? He claimed he bought the ammo within the last six months, but the box was dated 1997. It beggars belief that there has been a box of ammo sitting on the shelf at any gun store the through the last several ammo crisises, only to kaboom. I'm not saying the OP there wasn't up front. Whether from an unscrupulous private seller or a dishonest store, he (probably unknowingly at the time) bought a box of reloaded ammo that had been packed in a factory box and sold as new in order to take advantage of the ammo shortage. Wouldn't be the first (or even hundredth) time it's happened.
 
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Yes, I read the whole thread. Did you miss the part where he sent the ammo back to them and they declared it OK? Then, when the evidence led to the ammo, they declared it reloaded?

At the very least it's suspicious. Could someone have loaded the box with reloaded ammo? Yes. It's just awfully convenient that only later did they discover the ammo to be reloaded. You're probably right though.

Now that the ammo is gone it's a moot point.
 
CYA is always the right thing to do. I was thinking about this last night. How could you make sure that the ammo company isn't trying to pull a fast one? We live in a digital age, where everything seems to be caught on camera somewhere. Videotape yourself removing 2 rounds from the box and then packaging it up for mailing. Make sure the lot numbers are on film.

Its a crying shame that we have to protect our collective backsides this way, but in the litigious state we live in there is always something you can do to try to even the odds.
 
CYA is always the right thing to do. I was thinking about this last night. How could you make sure that the ammo company isn't trying to pull a fast one? We live in a digital age, where everything seems to be caught on camera somewhere. Videotape yourself removing 2 rounds from the box and then packaging it up for mailing. Make sure the lot numbers are on film.

Its a crying shame that we have to protect our collective backsides this way, but in the litigious state we live in there is always something you can do to try to even the odds.


I agree, and also agree that Federal's conduct, as described, is a little shady. I know that you never return evidence in a products liability claim to the manufacturer. Not because they'll do something shady, but because they then get to dictate inspections, testing, etc... But that's also part of what I do for a living...
 

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