.40 Shield sent to S&W customer service
- Thread starter emory
- Start date
STORMINORMAN
Member
MY ? exactly!
Got to admit: it is a pretty good question, huh?
Why (& just exactly HOW) would an underpower squib load crack a barrel?
Got to admit: it is a pretty good question, huh?
Why (& just exactly HOW) would an underpower squib load crack a barrel?
Good CS experience
I had a "day-one" problem with a S&W M&P Shield 9mm. The slide would NOT come off. Took it back to Cabela's where I bought it and they could not get the slide off either. We could see that part of the slide was not seated properly and they suggested I send it back to S&W. I called them, they sent me a return shipping label, handled the whole thing well, had my gun back in a week or so, and it has not failed since. S&W customer service is THE.BEST.
I had a "day-one" problem with a S&W M&P Shield 9mm. The slide would NOT come off. Took it back to Cabela's where I bought it and they could not get the slide off either. We could see that part of the slide was not seated properly and they suggested I send it back to S&W. I called them, they sent me a return shipping label, handled the whole thing well, had my gun back in a week or so, and it has not failed since. S&W customer service is THE.BEST.
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Because they are, in my experience, willing to do all sorts of things they do not have to do, if you ask nicely. I have always offered to pay, and in about 40 years, I have never had to pay, save for re-finish jobs. They have looked over used guns I have bought, replaced parts, returned the guns to "as new" condition, all springs, screws, any out-of-spec parts, and they always return the parts removed. On two occasions, I had to beg them to let me pay for changing a barrel on two different revolvers. (I paid for the barrels, but they would not charge for the installation.) Now, I doubt they would do all of that now, but on the other hand, I never expect them to do free work. Most of the time the gun is back with all the work completed even before the mailed "estimate" is received. In my experience, S&W has always been thorough, considerate, and they have been great to deal with.
Its darn nice to hear a positive report for once about the service work at the factory. I truly wonder if it really totally the fault of the bullet or possibly a defective barrel. Either way its a happy ending for the owner.
EdP1946
Member
That ring may not have been a crack. I had heard about machined aluminum snap caps causing such problems. The anodic coating is hard and brittle, and the aluminum below it is relatively soft. A ring of anodize fractures right where a bullet would meet its case. I immediately checked my AZoom snap caps and each of them was missing a hairline thickness of the anodize. I replaced them with Tipton's hard plastic and brass version. I suspect that the squib simply lacked the power necessary to push past the incompressible ring of anodize. You're very lucky that the squib revealed the problem before enough brass built up to stop a full powered round.
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But this wasn't........
But emory's case wasn't a warranty job.
While I'm here I'll say that for a non warranty job they moved pretty fast! Also, yeah, a squib alone should not ring the barrel, but if it did, what the hey?
And also I agree that it was an ammo issue and S&W were gracious to do the work free.
But emory's case wasn't a warranty job.
While I'm here I'll say that for a non warranty job they moved pretty fast! Also, yeah, a squib alone should not ring the barrel, but if it did, what the hey?
And also I agree that it was an ammo issue and S&W were gracious to do the work free.
sharps_74
Member
Good to hear about how they took care of you. I have a friend that has been waiting for S&W to get back to him for about eight months now on a pistol he sent in.
If it wasn't a warranty job, why then were there no charges? And why did a barrel ring or crack from a squib load? My point is, that it 'smells' like a belatedly acknowledged warranty job.
S&W has always paid for my shipping back to them, and when my 642 frame cracked, not only did they replace the gun but also paid my FFL transfer fee since it required a new serial number.
Hey Gang,
I worked for S&W for a number of years as a regional LE sales manager. I have never seen a company as dedicated to customer service as S&W. They truely make every effort to keep their customers happy and I have seen many instances where they go way beyond the call of duty to do so. I have also taught armorer's courses fo a couple of the other major manufacturers and have not seen the same level of dedication to their customer base, that I saw at S&W. The folks that work at Smith truely love working there and when I was there there were several families with 3 generations working at the same time. There was one individual that had been with them for 40 years and could have retired anytime. He always said " I love what I do". They are one of the great gun companies.
Ref the squib load. Not sure why your barrel ringed but I will tell you that Smith makes one of the toughest barrels out there. They are through heat treated and I have seen several occasions where .40's have been fired with a plugged barrel (bullet stuck) and the barrel was still servicable. Try that with a Glock and see what happens! The Kalifornia Highway Patrol even had a requirement that their service pistols be capable of doing that and Smith was the only manufacturer able to repeatably meet that spec. I have also taught at LE academys for over 35 years and have seen dozens of squibs from every manufacturer and the comment about it not being "lot" related is probably most correct. Ammo makers load millions of rounds very month. To expect all of them to be perfect is a stretch. That's why guns are "proofed".
I worked for S&W for a number of years as a regional LE sales manager. I have never seen a company as dedicated to customer service as S&W. They truely make every effort to keep their customers happy and I have seen many instances where they go way beyond the call of duty to do so. I have also taught armorer's courses fo a couple of the other major manufacturers and have not seen the same level of dedication to their customer base, that I saw at S&W. The folks that work at Smith truely love working there and when I was there there were several families with 3 generations working at the same time. There was one individual that had been with them for 40 years and could have retired anytime. He always said " I love what I do". They are one of the great gun companies.
Ref the squib load. Not sure why your barrel ringed but I will tell you that Smith makes one of the toughest barrels out there. They are through heat treated and I have seen several occasions where .40's have been fired with a plugged barrel (bullet stuck) and the barrel was still servicable. Try that with a Glock and see what happens! The Kalifornia Highway Patrol even had a requirement that their service pistols be capable of doing that and Smith was the only manufacturer able to repeatably meet that spec. I have also taught at LE academys for over 35 years and have seen dozens of squibs from every manufacturer and the comment about it not being "lot" related is probably most correct. Ammo makers load millions of rounds very month. To expect all of them to be perfect is a stretch. That's why guns are "proofed".
Mediumbore
Member
I had a squib with a CCI snakeload and my LGS damaged the cylinder crane getting the cylinder open to remove the remaining rounds. They sent it back to Smith for me but I was the one who handled the contact with Repair. No charge. Bad ammo then LGS damage getting it apart and STILL no charge. They are the best....
OP: with that much ammo on the line, I would contact FEDERAL by phone instead of email, especially if they haven't responded yet.
OP: with that much ammo on the line, I would contact FEDERAL by phone instead of email, especially if they haven't responded yet.
ginzo
Member
I understand that good customer service should be extended to everyone, BUT...
I've found that the Customer's attitude in presenting their problem/situation and interaction with the CS representative goes a long way. It kinda goes back to that old 'You catch more flies with Honey' saying.
I've found that the Customer's attitude in presenting their problem/situation and interaction with the CS representative goes a long way. It kinda goes back to that old 'You catch more flies with Honey' saying.
You might try
You might try weighing the rounds, maybe in batches to narrow it down depending on the accuracy of your scale. It may not totally eliminate the possibility, but a squib load may (should?) weigh less than a standard load.
...Sadly, I have 600rds of the same exact ammo and I am hesitant to shoot any. I know that, stastically speaking, I have nothing to fear. It seems stupid to go buy more target ammo when I have so much already. Maybe I will go shoot up all my good hollow points.
You might try weighing the rounds, maybe in batches to narrow it down depending on the accuracy of your scale. It may not totally eliminate the possibility, but a squib load may (should?) weigh less than a standard load.
S&W customer service
I am happy to hear such good things about S&W but here is where I am right now, I have a 642-2 that came from the performance center. It was supposed to have a trigger job done to it as part of what they do but it didn't seem any different than a 642 that had not been through the performance center so I called them they sent me a shipping label and I sent the gun to them. They received the gun June 5th. About a month later I got an estimate to refinish the frame and nothing about the trigger so I called them and they couldn't understand how that happened. They said they would talk to the gunsmith and take care of that and the gun would be back to me in mid August. Huh? You guys are getting quick service and mine is taking maybe 2 1/2 months? I think I'll call them again.
Any suggestions?
I am happy to hear such good things about S&W but here is where I am right now, I have a 642-2 that came from the performance center. It was supposed to have a trigger job done to it as part of what they do but it didn't seem any different than a 642 that had not been through the performance center so I called them they sent me a shipping label and I sent the gun to them. They received the gun June 5th. About a month later I got an estimate to refinish the frame and nothing about the trigger so I called them and they couldn't understand how that happened. They said they would talk to the gunsmith and take care of that and the gun would be back to me in mid August. Huh? You guys are getting quick service and mine is taking maybe 2 1/2 months? I think I'll call them again.
Any suggestions?
That's ridiculous. Yes, call them again and ask to speak to someone with a little higher pay grade. All you need to do is be very polite and express that you're very unsatisfied;
1st with the mix up of what was to be done, and
2nd with the extended wait, especially after the 1st issue, the screw up.
The 1st issue should warrant an expedited delivery!
bg1111
Member
S&W is closed for the next 2 weeks.
They told me early last week they'd be sending mine back before the end of last week since they're going to be closed this week and the next. My CS rep had me believing he was going to oversee getting mine fixed. Well, guess they just told me that for whatever reason. Won't be returned until who knows when after they come back. I bought mine in March and still don't have something that works.
BTW, I was very nice and courteous while talking to the CS. It's very concerning if the CS is being vindictive to it's customers because a customer is upset or frustrated. Having them not fix the problems and make customers send it back 2, 3 or 4 times or wait months to get it back isn't going to help their reputation. I'm really surprised how many postings there are about malfunctions and not getting them fixed.
They told me early last week they'd be sending mine back before the end of last week since they're going to be closed this week and the next. My CS rep had me believing he was going to oversee getting mine fixed. Well, guess they just told me that for whatever reason. Won't be returned until who knows when after they come back. I bought mine in March and still don't have something that works.
BTW, I was very nice and courteous while talking to the CS. It's very concerning if the CS is being vindictive to it's customers because a customer is upset or frustrated. Having them not fix the problems and make customers send it back 2, 3 or 4 times or wait months to get it back isn't going to help their reputation. I'm really surprised how many postings there are about malfunctions and not getting them fixed.
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So I manned up and shot 200 more rounds of Federal through it last week. 50 of them were from the same lot number as the squib.
No problems at all. Good grief that new recoil spring is stiff! I guess I had forgotten what it felt like new. Don't wait 1,600 rounds to change yours out.
Federal never responded about the squib. Oh well.
I suspect that the gunsmith at the range used a punch that was much less than 0.40 diameter. The rear of the bullet does not have a copper jacket. If he pounded a small punch into the soft lead rear of the bullet, it may have caused the bullet to expand radially, putting excessive stress into the bore.
If there had been a defect in the barrel from S&W, it probably wouldn't have made it so far to begin with.
No problems at all. Good grief that new recoil spring is stiff! I guess I had forgotten what it felt like new. Don't wait 1,600 rounds to change yours out.Federal never responded about the squib. Oh well.
I suspect that the gunsmith at the range used a punch that was much less than 0.40 diameter. The rear of the bullet does not have a copper jacket. If he pounded a small punch into the soft lead rear of the bullet, it may have caused the bullet to expand radially, putting excessive stress into the bore.
If there had been a defect in the barrel from S&W, it probably wouldn't have made it so far to begin with.
M&Pmeister
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That particular Federal ammo sends out a cloud of smoke, the likes of which I don't normally see with other ammo. After a magazine full of shots, down range would get so smoky I feel bad for the adjacent lanes. No failures of any kind so far, so I will finish up the few boxes I got left. After that, I won't buy them any more.
