.41 Mag, lead Keith-type SWC

Dave Workman

Dave Workman

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I finally broke down and started loading lead SWC bullets for my .41 Magnum. Two different loads for starters.
Starting with 200-grainers from Stateline
16.5 grs of 2400
and
5.0 grs of Titegroup

Winchester std large pistol primers

Reasonably accurate, no signs of pressure but either my chrony was acting up or maybe light conditions weren't right but I was expecting a bit more zip out of the 2400. Hmmmmm?

Perhaps if I go to a heavier bullet; I spoke to Frankie over at Rim Rock in Polson, Mt. (heck of a nice guy, BTW!) and they make a 215-grainer for which there seem to be several more powder options in Hodgdon's 'Annual Manual' that might provide a bit more spunk.

Maybe a heavier powder charge?

I'm open to suggestions. Been loading for the .41 for years, JHPs from Nosler, Sierra and Hornady primarily...some Speer Gold Dots...but supply these days is not always reliable and lead pills certainly don't wear out a barrel. ;)
 
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My go to load for the 41 mag is the Lyman 410459 on top of 18.5grs. of 2400. Probably runs about 1250 fps but I haven't checked them in a while.

Do not substitute the 215 gr bullet, it is a very different bullet.

OLGzono.jpg


from the left, 250 gr WFNGC, 220 gr 410459, 215 gr SWCBB, 200gr TC (?)
 
It has been years since I have fired jacketed projectiles through a .41. However, I have sent thousands of rounds downrange using various lead alloy. I have been using my own hard cast bullets, mostly from a Saeco #411 (a 220gr. Keith design) but also from a couple of similar Hensley and Gibbs moulds. The current component situation might warrant considering taking up casting your own, it has certainly made me much more independent and I have been more than satisfied with the cost and performance. Most of the loads were with 7.0 grains of Unique powder.
 
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Hello Fellow .41 mag lover! I've been loading for the .41 mag since ~1971 and prefer cast for most of my shooting. Load #2 is my most used. The loads listed were from an article by Keith from long ago, but I've been using them for years. Your mileage may vary!
Elmer Keith's 3 loads using the 220 gr. SWC that he designed (Lyman #410459):
(1.) Gallery Load: 4.5 grs. of Bullseye. (2.) Every Day Load: 7.5 grs. of Unique (Tried this one years ago & like it. Recoil's a bit Snappy, but comfortable.). (3.) Magnum Load: 20 grs. of 2400. (This one needs to be "approached CAREFULLY!).

Another option you might try:
8.0 grs. of Unique is considered a "standard mid-range" load today. <= Try Berry's 210 gr. Plated Bullets w/this load. (7.5 grs. has plenty of power and is more fun!).

Most of my cast loads run around 950-1,000 fps. and I have found that level to be accurate, pleasant to shoot, and highly effective for whatever needed to be shot. I have used lots of Unique and WW 231 in loading for the .41 thru the years, but over the past 2-4 years have also used Accurate #5744 with complete satisfaction. Trail Boss, TiteGroup, and IMR 4227 have also proven to be good powders.

I hope this helps to solve your quest.

WYT-P
Skyhunter
 
rkrcpa said:
My go to load for the 41 mag is the Lyman 410459 on top of 18.5grs. of 2400. Probably runs about 1250 fps but I haven't checked them in a while.

Do not substitute the 215 gr bullet, it is a very different bullet.

OLGzono.jpg


from the left, 250 gr WFNGC, 220 gr 410459, 215 gr SWCBB, 200gr TC (?)
Click to expand...

Oh, heavens no! Wouldn't "substitute" a 215 grainer. They have much different data, if that's what you're suggesting. Hodgdon's Annual Manual has more data for the 215-grainer than the 200-grain bullet.
18.5 grs of 2400, eh? Hmmmm. thx!
 
Skyhunter said:
Hello Fellow .41 mag lover! I've been loading for the .41 mag since ~1971 and prefer cast for most of my shooting. Load #2 is my most used. The loads listed were from an article by Keith from long ago, but I've been using them for years. Your mileage may vary!
Elmer Keith's 3 loads using the 220 gr. SWC that he designed (Lyman #410459):
(1.) Gallery Load: 4.5 grs. of Bullseye. (2.) Every Day Load: 7.5 grs. of Unique (Tried this one years ago & like it. Recoil's a bit Snappy, but comfortable.). (3.) Magnum Load: 20 grs. of 2400. (This one needs to be "approached CAREFULLY!).

Another option you might try:
8.0 grs. of Unique is considered a "standard mid-range" load today. <= Try Berry's 210 gr. Plated Bullets w/this load. (7.5 grs. has plenty of power and is more fun!).

Most of my cast loads run around 950-1,000 fps. and I have found that level to be accurate, pleasant to shoot, and highly effective for whatever needed to be shot. I have used lots of Unique and WW 231 in loading for the .41 thru the years, but over the past 2-4 years have also used Accurate #5744 with complete satisfaction. Trail Boss, TiteGroup, and IMR 4227 have also proven to be good powders.

I hope this helps to solve your quest.

WYT-P
Skyhunter
Click to expand...

It does and it doesn't. I don't use Unique. My preferred "hot" propellants are 2400 and H110. I've found them to be very consistent, so I stick with 'em.

Thanks so much for your input!
 
I use the RCBS 41 SWC mould (or similar commercially cast bullet) for my projectiles. I cast them to a medium hardness, size to .410" and lube with Alox lube.

With 8.0 grains of Unique and a standard LP primer. They run around 800 to 850 fps depending on which S&W I send them through. Accuracy is generally match grade and they duplicate the old police load that I carried in my Model 58 as an LEO. I use this load for 95% of my 41 Magnum shooting and it kicks around plastic gallon milk jugs at 50 yards with ease.

When I carry my Model 58 for boars, I load the old 220 grain Speer jacketed SWC (no longer available) over H110 or 2400 with magnum primers.
 
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Scharfschuetzer said:
I use the RCBS 41 SWC mould (or similar commercially cast bullet) for my projectiles. I cast them to a medium hardness, size to .410" and lube with Alox lube.

With 8.0 grains of Unique and a standard LP primer. They run around 800 to 850 fps depending on which S&W I send them through. Accuracy is generally match grade and they duplicate the old police load that I carried in my Model 58 as an LEO. I use this load for 95% of my 41 Magnum shooting and it kicks around plastic gallon milk jugs at 50 yards with ease.

When I carry my Model 58 for boars, I load the old 220 grain Speer jacketed SWC (no longer available) over H110 or 2400 with magnum primers.
Click to expand...


I'm not set up to cast and at my age, I have no intention of doing so. I'll be happy to buy cast bullets from people who do it for a living.
Thanks for your reply.:)
 
My SWCs drop from my mold at 212 grains

For decades I have been loading them on top of 9 grains of unique

This gives me 1070FPS from the 4" revolvers and 1125FPS from the 6" - 6 1/2" revolvers.
 
My favorite "zippy" .41 mag load is 22 grains of WW296 (H110) over a Keith style cast 215 grain bullet. In my 5" Redhawk it chronos 1430 fps. I cannot recommend this load to anyone else because, depending on the loading manual, it can be as much as a 2 grain overload. However I get no pressure signs or sticking cases. Plus I don't think I could put enough WW296 in the case to damage that Readhawk. The cylinder walls are stupid thicki!
 
FWIW the Keith designed bullet is the H&G 258 SWC not the Lyman 410459 . As a matter of fact the Lyman design pissed Elmer off so bad he ended his relationship with Lyman , which had been ongoing since the Ideal days . They thinned the front driving band down & changed the nose all of which Keith considered critical . In all honesty the RCBS , Lyman & H&G are all good bullets & shoot well from 800fps on up .
I've always went for heavier slugs in the 41 mag as down here hogs are our primary game . Deer are so small I won't shoot 'em as our state wildlife folks won't let us thin out the herd . With the exception of 2 counties up on the Alabama line , rest is overpopulated & underfed .
 
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boatbum101 said:
FWIW the Keith designed bullet is the H&G 258 SWC not the Lyman 410459 . As a matter of fact the Lyman design pissed Elmer off so bad he ended his relationship with Lyman , which had been ongoing since the Ideal days . They thinned the front driving band down & changed the nose all of which Keith considered critical . In all honesty the RCBS , Lyman & H&G are all good bullets & shoot well from 800fps on up .
Click to expand...

True but the 410459 is close in design and accurate, it really comes down to finding someone who casts either the H&G or Lyman. Most casters sell something they refer to as "Keith" style but in reality are not.

Montana Bullet Works has an LBT SWC-K for $178/500

Moyers Cast Bullets has the 410459 for $66/500.

I've been using Moyers for years and have driven then @ 1400fps with no problems.
 
Sorry I can't help you with first hand information since I don't have a .41 Magnum and never reloaded the cartridge. I can however tell you what's in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks #3 and #4. Since you were expecting more velocity from 2400 I'm listing the loads for that powder so you can compare your load to the Lyman loads.

From Cast Bullet Handbook #3:
212gr Lyman mold # 41028
15.4gr to 20.0gr 2400 for 1292 fps

215gr Lyman #410610 SWC
14.2gr to 18.8gr 2400 for 1272 fps

From Cast Bullet Handbook #4:
195gr Lee #410-195 SWC
16.6gr to 18.5gr 2400 for 1350 fps

210gr RCBS #41-210 SWC
15.3gr to 17.1gr 2400 for 1286 fps

220gr Seaco (Redding) # 418 FRN bullet
14.5gr to 16.2gr 2400 for 1222 fps (potentially most accurate)

If you want info for other powders five me a holler and I'll see if that powder/bullet data is in the cast bullet handbook or my other books.

I hope this helps you a little, good luck, be safe...
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Sorry I can't help you with first hand information since I don't have a .41 Magnum and never reloaded the cartridge. I can however tell you what's in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks #3 and #4. Since you were expecting more velocity from 2400 I'm listing the loads for that powder so you can compare your load to the Lyman loads.

From Cast Bullet Handbook #3:
212gr Lyman mold # 41028
15.4gr to 20.0gr 2400 for 1292 fps

215gr Lyman #410610 SWC
14.2gr to 18.8gr 2400 for 1272 fps

From Cast Bullet Handbook #4:
195gr Lee #410-195 SWC
16.6gr to 18.5gr 2400 for 1350 fps

210gr RCBS #41-210 SWC
15.3gr to 17.1gr 2400 for 1286 fps

220gr Seaco (Redding) # 418 FRN bullet
14.5gr to 16.2gr 2400 for 1222 fps (potentially most accurate)

If you want info for other powders five me a holler and I'll see if that powder/bullet data is in the cast bullet handbook or my other books.

I hope this helps you a little, good luck, be safe...
Click to expand...

WOW! Very kind of you to share.
Thx
 
Guys, thx for the suggestions but I must say I don't use Unique. Never have.
My preferred propellants include:
H110
2400
Titegroup
AutoComp
CFE Pistol
HP-38
HS-6

Still, I'm indebted to you all for the responses. Handloaders are among the most helpful shooters around, and I can say that from more than 45 years of experience...and more than 60 years of being a shooter. :)
 
boatbum101 said:
FWIW the Keith designed bullet is the H&G 258 SWC not the Lyman 410459 . As a matter of fact the Lyman design pissed Elmer off so bad he ended his relationship with Lyman , which had been ongoing since the Ideal days . They thinned the front driving band down & changed the nose all of which Keith considered critical . In all honesty the RCBS , Lyman & H&G are all good bullets & shoot well from 800fps on up .
I've always went for heavier slugs in the 41 mag as down here hogs are our primary game . Deer are so small I won't shoot 'em as our state wildlife folks won't let us thin out the herd . With the exception of 2 counties up on the Alabama line , rest is overpopulated & underfed .
Click to expand...


:D:rolleyes:
Why doesn't that surprise me about Elmer Keith? I never met him, but having read his stuff and actually listening to a couple of recorded interviews with him, he was one of those fellows who certainly didn't mince words or suffer what he considered foolishness.
I know some people who did know him. ;)
 
Have been a 41 mag fan for a while. Cast loads have been 8 grains of Universal Clays under a 215 cast, also 8 grains of Unique. Recently inherited a 4 pound keg of Herco. Just today tried 7.5 grains under a 215 and was impressed. Nine grains of Herco opened the group up a bit so will stick with 7.5 grains. Shooting a well used 4 inch model 57, my last three shots hovered close to an inch off hand at 25 yards. Now to stretch the distance some.
 
Rim Rock has a 240gr LSWC that I have had good experience with and typically load over a moderate charge of Unique.

In the current shortage of components, my largest stock of powder is W231, so I plan on working up a load for this bullet when I get a chance. I typically aim for 950-1000 fps out of a 4" barrel. I let you know how it works out.

I've recently tried some GT bullets in .44 and have some in .357 waiting for load development. So far I have been very pleased and plan on ordering some of their .41 options. I like that you can order as few as 100 so I can see if I like a product before placing a larger order.
 
Several medium burners will do yeomans work in mid power loads with cast bullets . 7 to 8grs Unique , Universal or W231 with a 210 - 220gr cast runs around 1000fps +/- , is pleasant shooting , accurate & has enough power to be of general field use .
 
Chubbs103 said:
Rim Rock has a 240gr LSWC that I have had good experience with and typically load over a moderate charge of Unique.

In the current shortage of components, my largest stock of powder is W231, so I plan on working up a load for this bullet when I get a chance. I typically aim for 950-1000 fps out of a 4" barrel. I let you know how it works out.

I've recently tried some GT bullets in .44 and have some in .357 waiting for load development. So far I have been very pleased and plan on ordering some of their .41 options. I like that you can order as few as 100 so I can see if I like a product before placing a larger order.
Click to expand...

I'm loading the Rim Rock 240 gr Keith style LSWC over 8 grains of Unique in Starline brass for my 4" m58 and my 4 5/8" Blackhawk. I figure around 1,000 fps.

Any load info using Universal Clays or 2400 with the Rim Rock 240 gr Keith style LSWC? I'd like 1,150 fps or better from my short barrels.
 
Love the 41. Many years ago I bought a whole bunch of Sierra 210JHPs really cheap...80 pounds. So I use them most of the time but I have a fair amount of 245 gr WFNGC cast bullets. They were my shoot it all back in the 60-70s. Shot a A/Y bull moose in the chest at 40 ft. 2 steps forward DRT. Same with a medium grizzly ...luckiest shot of my life. Bullet traveled the spinal column Another DRT. Also a good sized cow elk at maybe 25 yards pass through both bullets. Original Load data is extinct now, but I still load that bullet at about 1050 out of my old(68) 4 inch 57. I use a powder that is not known to be in great favor these days...L'il Gun. I shoot those loads with goodyear grips but the rest of my shooting is at a much more sedate velocity. It's a fun gun. You really don't need a honking velocity with heavy bullets. I shot a medium sized whitetail doe here at 40 yards with the 210 load at about 850. It ran across the field for about 50 feet. Recovered the bullet under the hide on the opposite side mushroomed a bit. I do like the 41. It was eating frozen tomatoes in my garden. It's own salad bar all summer
 
Dave Workman : I read your list of powders and I highly recommend Titegroup . After working with it in my 44 mag 29 -- 4" and really liking it I next loaded up my model 57 , 4" with a 210=220 gr cast bullet and was just as pleased as the results in my 44 mag . In the 41 mag I used 7.0 grs . Hodgdon's lists 6.5--7.5 grs so 7.0 is in the middle . I will definitely continue to use this load , it's accurate , cleaner than unique and has plenty of power to take care of most anything needing taken care of on the N/A continent . Good luck , regards Paul
 
Two of my most used loads are as follows:

Lyman 410459 16gr 2400 Federal LP Mag primer
4 5/8" Blackhawk 1283 fps
7 1/2" Redhawk 1398 fps
A very accurate load

Lyman 410459 9 gr Unique CCI 350
4 5/8" Blackhawk 1102 fps
7 1/2" Redhawk 1180 fps

I hope this helps
 
If I cast my own I use the RCBS 215gr SWC. If I buy them (more often these days) I get them from SNS or Acme. My favorite target load is 6.0gr of Universal which is as accurate as anything I've ever shot in any revolver.
 
41 mag Dave said:
Two of my most used loads are as follows:

Lyman 410459 16gr 2400 Federal LP Mag primer
4 5/8" Blackhawk 1283 fps
7 1/2" Redhawk 1398 fps
A very accurate load

Lyman 410459 9 gr Unique CCI 350
4 5/8" Blackhawk 1102 fps
7 1/2" Redhawk 1180 fps

I hope this helps
Click to expand...

What weight does that Lyman 410459 come out? Thanks very much for the data!! Especially the chrono info :D
 
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