410, 410, anyone 410...Hello?

[IAM Rand]

Not sure if everyone had the same idea but, just picked up a Governor and now am trying to find some self defense 410 ammo. Midway, Natchez, Midsouth, and locals are all out of the defense ammo. Even Gunbroker has only one kind of defense ammo. Never heard of them, Sabot designs LLC. They are selling expensive Flechette ammo.

Anyone got a line on Hornady or Winchester 410 defense ammo?

 

[Dave Lively]

Expensive compared to what buckshot cost a few months ago but there is a lot of that going around these days. Make sure a Governor can handle 3 inch shells before ordering.

5 Round Box - 410 Gauge 3 inch 5 Pellet 000 Buck Winchester Super X Ammo - XB413 | SGAmmo.com

 

[IAM Rand]

That would be a negative Ghost Rider. 2 1/2 only.

 

[Drm50]

Since 410 became fashionable for SD they are gouging big time on ammo.
Even shot is expensive. They have 12 & 20g cheap ammo but no 410.

 

[IAM Rand]

Nothing at Cheaper than dirt.

 

[Echo40]

Federal Premium .410 Handgun 000 Buckshot is the absolute best Self-Defense ammunition for the Taurus Judge, Smith & Wesson Governor, Magnum Research BFR, and any other .410 handguns on the market. PERIOD.

Yes, it's expensive and yes, it can be hard to find, but that's because it really is the best ammo available. Other .410 handgun loads such as the Winchester PDX1 Defender and Hornady Triple Defense ammo is gimmicky, inaccurate, and largely ineffective, only marginally better than ordinary .410 Shotgun Ammo.

The Taurus Judge and S&W Governor are specialty handguns which require specialized ammunition designed specifically for short barrels to be effective, otherwise they're just range toys. Unfortunately, cheapskates don't understand this and are adamant that any firearm which doesn't perform well with bargain basement ammo is junk, so if you subscribe to the same ideology, then I strongly suggest that you cut your losses and sell your Governor immediately, then console yourself by joining the ranks of those who denigrate .410 Revolvers at every available opportunity because I can tell you based on personal experience that cheap run-of-the-mill .410 ammo is going to perform terribly out of a handgun.

Still with me? Very good then, sorry for being short about this, but I've owned a Taurus Judge Magnum for the past 3 years, so I know what works, but folks always choose to ignore my advice then complain when it doesn't work out for them.
Federal Premium .410 Handgun 000 Buck is perfect for Self-Defense with a .410 Revolver because it just plain works. Federal did their homework and came out with a winner because instead of trying to make some gimmicky load for the gun with plated discs or .41 caliber slugs which predictably tumble out of the barrel resulting in abysmal accuracy, they simply adapted their proven Flight Control design to .410 Bore, then used faster-burning powders to achieve optimal velocity out of a short barrel. As such, Federal .410 Handgun 000 Buck utilizes a scaled-down variant of the Flight Control wad which prevents the shot from coming into contact with the barrel's rifling and the shot is copper-plated so it doesn't deform inside of the shot cup under recoil, which in turn helps the shot to maintain a tighter group as well as greater accuracy in flight.
To the best of my knowledge, no other .410 ammo does this, which is why it tends to perform so terribly when tested. Unfortunately, most ammo companies made their ammo solely for the purpose of capitalizing on the popularity of .410 Handguns, ergo they really didn't try to design optimal loads for .410 Handguns, they just made something with a gimmick that sounds good on paper like goofy mixed shot loads with plated discs, shot, and/or slugs combined within the same shell. Meanwhile, common sense dictates that if there were any merit to such designs, then obviously they would have also been offered in 20 Gauge and 12 Gauge loads as well, yet they were not. Wanna know why? Because they are useless gimmicks.

So yeah, although this whole post may have come out reading like a clumsily constructed sales pitch for Federal ammo, it's just because they simply offer the very best load for .410 Handguns. I'm not a Federal Fanboy either, in fact my favorite defensive loads for all my other handguns is made by Hornady.

But hey, don't take my word for it. There are no shortage of .410 Ammo Tests out of a Taurus Judge or S&W Governor on YouTube, (honorable mention to ShootingtheBull410 for providing some of the most fair, unbiased ammo tests available) so I strongly encourage you to check them out and see for yourself.

 

[IAM Rand]

I appreciate your advice. Can't find anything out there right now. Also, I won't need it for any distance past 10-15 feet. Mainly for in house use. With that distance I am not sure I am very worried about tumbling. If I am that concerned, I will use 45LC or that ACP. I have seen some of the testing and have never been a big fan of killing ballistic gel. I have very little concern for Hornady or Winchester at the close distances. Not sure I would get a complaint for using them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter as I can't get any of them anyway. I will just have to practice with birdshot and wait for something to hit the shelves.

 

[IAM Rand]

Hickok45 did his scientific testing with the PDX1 and was very positive about them. They killed many aluminum plates and an air duct as well as a metal barrel. Can't go wrong.

 

[Oracle]

Scarcity and high prices for 410 aren't new, I had a Taurus Judge several years ago and experienced the same issues. The Judge became a trade in for a model 1911, the model 1911 became a trade in for a S&W model 629 44 magnum. The model 629 isn't going anywhere.

 

[Echo40]

I appreciate your advice. Can't find anything out there right now. Also, I won't need it for any distance past 10-15 feet. Mainly for in house use. With that distance I am not sure I am very worried about tumbling. If I am that concerned, I will use 45LC or that ACP. I have seen some of the testing and have never been a big fan of killing ballistic gel. I have very little concern for Hornady or Winchester at the close distances. Not sure I would get a complaint for using them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter as I can't get any of them anyway. I will just have to practice with birdshot and wait for something to hit the shelves.

Okay, if you truly appreciate my advice, then I urge you to heed it because it sounds a lot to me like you may be dismissing it somewhat.

Although 10-15 yards isn't much, the short little 2.5" barrel on the Governor will spread out shot in a hurry, especially when it comes to ammo that lacks a shot cup because the shot will be spun by the rifling. As a result, impacts at 10-15 yards are going to be all over the target, and while that might sound like a good thing, at least some precision is required in order to assure critical hits, and shot that flies wild and strikes the target unpredictably isn't conducive to that.

Don't get me wrong, I encourage you to get the best ammo available to you, and if Winchester PDX1 or Hornady Triple Defense is all that you can get, then by all means buy it, as it is at the very least a bit better than ordinary .410 Shotgun ammo, but again, I strongly recommend that you prioritize purchasing some Federal 000 Buck as soon as possible.

I'm sure that in a pinch sny other .410 Bore Self-Defense ammo will prove to be effective, especially within the confines of your home in which the distance between yourself and your adversary are minimal, but you still want as much accuracy and penetration as possible, so whatever you do, do not use birdshot. In fact, don't use any shot smaller than 00 Buck, as it most likely will not penetration deeply enough to reach vital organs.

Generally speaking, for lack of anything better when it comes to .410 Buckshot, .45 Long Colt ought to be your first choice. Despite the fact that it has long since been eclipsed in terms of raw power by Magnum Revolver cartridges, .45 Long Colt has a long and storied history as a reliable man-stopper. It was originally designed in 1872-73 as a cartridge suitable for cavalry, ergo it was made to be powerful enough to drop men and horses alike, and up until the invention of the .357 Magnum cartridge, .45 Long Colt was the most powerful handgun cartridge commercially available.
Best of all, despite what certain folks may assert, pretty much any Standard Pressure .45LC is safe/accurate out of the Judge, will hit exactly where you aim, and leave behind an effective wound. So even if all you can find are Cowboy Action Shooting Loads, .45LC has your defensive needs covered far better than any sub-par .410 shotshells.

One word of caution though, avoid any overpressure .45 Long Colt ammo marked as +P, Magnum, or Ruger Only, because it is loaded significantly hotter than Standard Pressure ammo and thus is not safe to shoot out of the Governor. Yes, the Governor is rated for .45 ACP +P, but .45LC so-called "+P" loads are not actually loaded to SAAMI Specifications, it's just an unofficial designation for the sake of marketing to let the lay person know that it's hotter than normal Standard Pressure loads, the problem is that these so-called ".45LC +P" loads are loaded above and beyond the usual 10% increase that actual SAAMI Spec +P loads would be, clear into .44 Magnum territory.

Oh, and just a side note. While I choose to refer to it as ".45 Long Colt" it's officially just ".45 Colt" so if you see that printed on the box, it's the same exact thing. The nomenclature that is ".45 Long Colt" is a colloquialism which generally exists to better differentiate .45 Colt from the shorter .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) and historically the .45 Schofield cartridge which was sometimes colloquially referred to as .45 Short.

 

[The Norseman]

410 bore

Some 410 box marked "Defense Loads", Really,
are you kidding me (especially for use under 50 feet).

Have you ever seen what a #6 shot 410 shell does
at under 50 feet? Who needs "Defense Loads"?
That racoon I shot last month didn't know what hit him.

I'm not spending a lot of money for DL, when a $13.00
box of 25 #6 shot 410 at Wal Mart works.

And those 45 Colt loads, you better know what house wall and
neighbors house wall it's going through when you let one go.

 

[Rule3]

You would be better off using 45 ACP or 45 Colt ammo despite what some You Tubers say and videos they have. All ammo is scarce right now, but more so for the 410 "defensive" loads as they do not make much of it to begin with. It is not a round that many shoppers are looking for.
Big bulking revolvers limited accuracy and holds 6 rounds.
Sure, within 10 feet maybe.



Why You Shouldn't Use .410 Shotshells for Defense -The Firearm Blog

 

[2152hq]

Why would you go to that caliber and use that gun for that purpose when there are perfectly good 45acp, 45Colt and a hundred other choices around in a handgun, or shotgun.

Novelty should not be part of choosing self-defense equipment.
But it seems to sell stuff anyway.

I like the 410. I shoot it a lot. I reload it. I used to hunt with it many years ago.
It has limitations.
You can't make something out of it that it ain't.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In the shotgun world, the .410 & 28 Ga. have been a "Specialty Load" that is usually use in shooting skeet .........

but some of us take it to the trap range so we can beat on our chest, breaking birds back at the 27 yard Handicap.
Not a good thing if you want birds in the field for the table, unless your hunting the little Dove.

One box of ammo for the "Judge" is not going to break you, but
a few rounds shot to see what happens, is a good idea.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Why would you go to that caliber and use that gun for that purpose when there are perfectly good 45acp, 45Colt and a hundred other choices around in a handgun, or shotgun.

Novelty should not be part of choosing self-defense equipment.
But it seems to sell stuff anyway.

I like the 410. I shoot it a lot. I reload it. I used to hunt with it many years ago.
It has limitations.
You can't make something out of it that it ain't.

X2.......I load and shoot doves & skeet with multiple 410's. My opinion a defense gun it ain't. Like you stated a 38/9mm/40/45 acp is smaller, lighter,holds more rounds and is more accurate.........However if you want to carry a club, rock or 410 have at it.

 

[Echo40]

I don't know which is worse, the folks who think that birdshot is viable for Self-Defense or the folks who think that there's absolutely no practical application whatsoever for a Revolver which can shoot both .45s and .410 Shotshells?

Honestly guys, talk about going to extremes from one end of the spectrum to another...

Just because birdshot works on small animals doesn't mean that it will be as effective on a human being, but at the same time it's downright absurd to think that getting hit with 4-5 .36cal/9mm projects per trigger pull wouldn't be effective and offers nothing over a single .45cal projectile.

Here's the reality of the situation... Birdshot is too small, too light weight, too inaccurate, and traveling much too slowly out of a 2.5" Barrel to be effective. Sure, you could easily blind someone by shooting them in the face with it, and that in turn could very well enable you to escape from an attacker, but it's also horribly inhumane. However, 4 pellets of 000 Buckshot have the necessary weight, mass, and velocity even out of a 2.5" Barrel to inflict a deadly wound in a single shot, and with the Governor you have 6 shots. So yeah, a .410 Bore 4-Pellet 000 Buck Shotshell most certainly offers a tangible benefit over a single .45LC/ACP.

Now, I'm not going to argue about you on the subject any further because I already know from experience that it's a wasted effort and that no matter how much evidence I submit to prove that 000 Buckshot is deadly, (which I shouldn't even have to do in the first place) at best you'll stop arguing with me in this particular thread, but ultimately you'll just ignore it and continue posting your erroneous assertions in future threads, so I won't be wasting my time.
However, I will say this much... If any of you honestly don't believe that .410 000 Buckshot out of a Judge/Governor isn't effective, yet aren't so unreasonably sure of that assertion that you'd ignore all evidence to the contrary, then please do yourselves a favor and look into it. Because the proof is out there, over the past 21 or so years that such firearms have come into being, they have been used effectively for Self-Defense and unfortunately even murder with 000 Buck and the results were pretty gruesome. You may have to do some digging to find the reports, but I assure you that they do exist. In fact, if you search threads on this very forum there was a thread on the Revolver Forum with a post featuring a sampling of such reports. No, I'm not going to link to it because I refuse to put in the effort to dig it up for folks who will most-likely just ignore it or conjure up makebelieve scenarios of how an ordinary .45 Revolver would have done better and I'm just too jaded at this point to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone. So instead, you are going to look it up out of your own personal desire to avoid making outrageously ignorant claims which will in turn hurt your reputation/credibility, assuming that you possess the necessary humility to do so. Otherwise, feel free to continue spouting nonsense.

 

[epj]

I’ve never shot anything more dangerous than a piece of paper with my Judge. However, at about 12-15’, the center of the target had 4 holes within about a 3” circle. Another hole, a little off center from the wad. Looked pretty much lethal to me. I wouldn’t get in front of that gun if I could avoid it. 50 yards, probably no bueno. Across the room, muy bueno.

 

[IAM Rand]

WOW, from a thread I started about the scarcity of 410 defense ammo to Gee Wiz, is the 410 a good defense gun.

Okay people, take a deep breath, couple of steps back and reeeeeeelax. If we are going to go down this road then let me jump in with both feet. ANY gun/caliber can be a defensive tool. 22LR to 500 mag to large game rifles that would normally be reserved for dangerous animals on the continent of Africa. Having said that, it is not always going to be practical to use many of the stuff that is out there.

Factors will have to be taken into account. As they say, Location, Location, Location. Do I want to use a 300 RUM inside my house, no of course not. Could I use a 22 pistol inside my house.....or outside for that matter. Yes BUT, and I did the big but because it is not the best round for self defense. Would I tell someone to never use a 22LR for self defense, NO. There are people that are elderly or have a physical issue that may limit them to a 22. As has kinda already been eluded to here, something is better than nothing.

This is mainly a house gun that I purchased. Hence, it will be used inside the house is extreme emergencies. I have not decided upon what one round will be used. I have heard of people alternating rounds or starting with a 410 bore then going to the 45LC(that one is for you Forte Smitten Wesson, yes I know that it has several designations, just liked using Long Colt). I am not sure how big other members houses are but, mine is not a mansion. That is why I said that it would be for the 10 to 15 feet distance. I am quite comfortable with using any of the "self defense" 410 ammo that is out there. From what I have seen they are all quite capable.

ALSO, as I previously stated, never been a big fan of the Jello shooting. I have seen/heard of people being killed by a 22 and people surviving much larger caliber rounds. Shooting ballistic gelatin is cool and all but, not sure I want to bet my life on the results of shooting gelatin. Again, location, location, location. I practice to make sure I can hit what I am aiming at and do it faster than the other guy. If I do that with a 22 or a 410 or a 500 mag then I win no matter what............in most cases. Drugs and body armor can make a difference.

I guess my bottom line is, pick something, train with it, and find a good ammo for the situation you will be using it for. Above and beyond that you will have to rely on a higher power of your choice.

Now you can exhale.

 

[Shorty03]

410?
One word: Walmart
They still sell it and will continue to do so.
Wait! That was more than one word.....
Shorty03

 

[tops]

Anyway, it doesn't matter as I can't get any of them anyway. I will just have to practice with birdshot and wait for something to hit the shelves.

I have opened up shells with small shot and replaced the small shot with BBs. Open the crimp enough to spill the shot and put in BBs and push the crimp back. Larry