4227 and .38-44

[Nevada Ed]

In my 686 6" and a 38 case with the 158 XTP bullet, and a full case of 4227 did 866 fps.

With a 357 case a light load of 12 grs did 976 fps.
I never loaded a full load but a 6" should get around 1250 fps.

Good luck.

 

[cowboy4evr]

If you had streaks of leading in the barrel , that wasn't caused by the powder , IMR 4227 . You might have internal dimension problems with your revolver . The cylinder throats might be undersize or there's a " choke " where the barrel threads onto the frame . When indexing the front sight to the rear sight they over tighten the barrel causing a " choke " a tight spot . These conditions not only can cause leading the barrel when shooting cast , they also affect accuracy . It's not an uncommon thing . Regards Paul

 

[spencerdiesel]

Thanks for the info and experience y’all. So with my COL at .357 length, theoretically it’s equating to loading in .357 brass? I just bought a basic Caldwell chrono (the $90 one). I noticed the 13.5 gr loading was only a 1/16th or so below the bullet base at .357 COL.
What are the best options to remedy choking?
I’ve played with roll crimping the SNS hardcast 147 flat points (no cannelure) and was going to try some loads with them. Currently it takes about 4-5 moderate wacks in a inertia puller to separate the SNS, and about 5-6 for the lswchp.

 

[cowboy4evr]

How I have removed the " choke " in a revolver is to " fire lap " the barrel . It's a fairly simple process but requires patience and the proper knowledge how to do it . I won't go into it here . You can google it for more info or buy Veral Smith's soft bound hand book " Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets . Veral owns LBT Molds , one of the finer mold makers . His book might be found on amazon . Regards Paul

 

[Nevada Ed]

When loading lead bullets, a crimp is not needed with light target loads
since the recoil is very mild and should not be enough to have the bullet "Jump" in the case from recoil/inertia, even in 16 oz. revolvers.

Many lead bullets if seated deep enough will have enough friction on the case, to keep it in place, while shooting.

I have only had some bullet "Shift" when I reached a full standard load in a light J frame or a +P 38 load in a 357 revolver, in my loadings, without a good crimp on the bullet.


Let me know if you can get "Bullet jump" with your slow 4227 powder.
I don't know if it can be done?

 

[Neversink n Klapperthal]

Hope it works out for you. I had loads of unburned in 38 Spl with 2400

 

[spencerdiesel]

Ok all sorry for the delay in info. Got my chrono working and have some vel’s. Unfortunately (always somethin ain’t it?) the only numbers for 4227 I have are for 11.0 gr with LSWCHP @ .357 COL in the model 60. All numbers are also only 4 -5 shot averages.
40 deg & 50% hum
Model 10-5 4”
HPR (no longer made, I can see why) 158 JHP 678 FPS 622 635 611
Underwood 150 gr Wcutter 888 928 (readings for only 2 shots)
Power Pistol 6.0 gr 158 Nosler jhp 851 808 837 858
PP 6.2 gr 147 gr SNS coated (a flat point 9mm pill) 948 965 956 976
Underwood 158 Kieth 1125 1130 1146 1157 (impressed)
5.2 gr PP 158 LSWCHP 898 831 847 848

S&W 637 1 7/8”
HPR 158 JHP 702 657 629 605 643
Underwood 150 gr Wcutter 856 844 845 854
PP 6.0 gr 158 JHP 758 777 793 728
PP 6.2 gr 147 gr SNS 858 828 881 818
Underwood 158 kieth 1021 (only 1 of those left, hit 6” above POA)
5.2 PP 158 LSWCHP 741 759 764 766

Model 60-15 3”
ZERO brand (discontinued around 2000?) 158 LSWC 776 779 772 763 802
5.4 PP Acme coated Wcutter 148 883 885 892 915 866
5.4 PP LSWCHP 906 854 856 851 873
Underwood 158 Kieth 1075 1123 1093 1118 1125
Underwood Wcutter 150 922 906 909 929 931
11 gr 4227 158 LSWCHP 818 892 888 919 889

 

[Univibe]

If you still need .357 brass, I'll send you a little. PM wwith USPS mail address.

 

[spencerdiesel]

Univibe thank you for the offer! I apologize for the ridiculously late response. I was foolish enough to complete a lengthy response & chrono data post without copying it. I had to sign in again and lost it.

Here is the condensed info of the latest chrono. 45 deg., 60% humidity, all shot through 60-15 3” .357 mag.

5.6 PP 147 gr coated flat point (894 avg)

9.5 4227 148 coated Wadcutter 679 668 739 687 721
9.5 4227 147 FP 746 743 775 662 688
11 g 4227 (.357 col) LSWCHP 818 892 888 919 889 (880 avg)
12.5 4227 148 coated Wadcutter 961 933 928 948 921
12.5 4227 147 FP 985 936 928 946 899
5.6 PP 148 coated Wadcutter (903 avg)

Factory ammo PMC .357 158 JSP 1104 1129 1075 1064 1077

As expected the 9.5 gr 4227 was filthy residue wise, though shot well accuracy wise. The best groups of the above were attained with the 12.5 gr 4227/ 147 FP and 5.6 gr PP/148 Wadcutter. Both averaged around 2 1/4” 5 shot groups offhand at 15 yards.

 

[johnnyjr]

W231 and BE-86 are very close in FPS and accuracy in my 686 6" revolver.
I would almost say it is the same powder, since they are so close in FPS and accuracy.

I can't find my w231 picture but this one of BE-86 with the 6" barrel off of sand bags on one of my chrony test, gives you an idea if this powder works in a .357 case.

That's 22 bullet holes..