44-40 round?

[THE PILGRIM]

Wyatt and others - Lonely Are the Brave - the first part of Kirk’s escape run was filmed on the La Luz Trail.
That’s just North of Town going up the West side of the Sandia Mountains.
And the Deputy whose name I can’t recall - was up on a big boulder.
The later ‘disaster’ sequence was shot South of here down near Socorro, NM.

 

[DWalt]

As is the case with the .32-20, there were both .38-40 and 44-40 “high velocity” loadings available, made mainly for rifle use. They used considerably lighter than standard bullet weights and produced greater MVs. Examples of those loadings are very scarce, I believe they were not on the market for very long.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

The first Bisleys I ever saw belonged to my Buddy Frank.
He had not one but two Nickel Flattop Target Bisleys. 32-20.
In his bedroom in a buscadera rig hanging on the closet door knob
First Flattop Target Bisleys I ever saw and ain’t seen that many since then.

 

[twodog max]

The 44-40 brass indeed had what is now considered weak cases. However, it is important to explain to insure it is not misunderstood or misrepresented.

Winchester and other early manufactures used what is unofficially called balloon-head cases. These cases were indeed solid-head cases, but had a "pocket" that surrounded the primer chamber. These "balloon-head" cases were used for the 44-40 High Velocity loads for 40 years, but were instructed to not be reloaded from this option. The cases are weaker than what we use today but could still be used and reloaded many times in their day.

You are correct of course about balloon head cases. I was a little fuzzy with the way I wrote this. I was referring to modern solid head cases and so was Mike Venturino. I think he had had cases fail in the neck, shoulder area. The thinner brass in this area could not take the pressures and would split after only a couple loadings.

 

[biku324]

Even new Win , Starline, and Rem brass is much thinner than magnum brass - if you teliad, you may crumple a few until you get used to it.

 

[Bryan Austin]

You are correct of course about balloon head cases. I was a little fuzzy with the way I wrote this. I was referring to modern solid head cases and so was Mike Venturino. I think he had had cases fail in the neck, shoulder area. The thinner brass in this area could not take the pressures and would split after only a couple loadings.

That is interesting thanks. Out of all of the shooting of the old cases that I did, I never had one fail other than the one I posted (below right case). I did, however, have a few modern and vintage case neck splits that I never could figure out why, bothe vertical and horizontal splits at the neck and mouth areas. Nothing consistent, which leads me to believe that they were simply one off weak points during manufacture.

I did have several cases split at the mouth due to using the LFCD...those were constant and the results from using over sized bullets where the brass squeezed through the collet gap.

Thanks for that information.!!

Also, to example a tad more. In the pre-1884 case...left below photo, the powder pocket is obviously larger than the post 1930's case to the right. Mainly due to the use of small primers. The case on the right uses regular large primers, making for a smaller powder pocket. The wall around the primer chamber is obviously thicker as well. These smaller pockets resulted in lower pressures and velocities...but the main difference was the switch from rifle powders to pistol powders.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

RE: .429 bullets in early Colt (.426-.427).

Probably not a problem, but I would (and I do) stick with lead bullets and modest loads. I would expect stout loads with jacketed bullets to be more likely to cause problems. Black powder loads require compression of the BP charge, so reduced loads can be another challenge; I have read of the use of compression wads and/or inert filler material, but I have no experience with those.

My Colt SAA Frontier Six Shooter is 1914 production. Before reaching the bore the first challenge presented is the .426-.427 chamber mouths. If .429 bullets were attempted in that revolver I suspect that the loaded cartridges might not chamber at all.

The standardization processes (such as SAAMI in North America) have been a major improvement, but apply only to the modern products. Those of us who enjoy the older vintage firearms have to stick with the old rules and cautions.

I have a black powder only 1992 John Gren 1860 Colt conversion in .44 Special and loaded it with 23 grains BP topped off with corn meal to compress. that worked great and it smelled like burning bread when I fired it. This was before the Italians started making conversions later on. 215 grain lead worked perfect with the front sight he put on it. Two of his conversions were used in Kevin Costner’s “Wyatt Earp” in 1994, I think.