44 cal Top Break

[Swiftmotoring]

I am new to the S-W forum due to my purchase today of....well I am not quite sure! I purchased a lot of 5 guns today sight unseen for $500. The description was 2 SxS 12 gauge, 2 early 12 gauge semi autos and a worthless old revolver. Well the 2 SxS's were $200 guns and the 2 semi's were a JC Higgins Model 66 and Stevens 311 so all was OK and then he handed me the S-W in a plastic bag and said you can have this revolver too. After searching this forum I am sure someone can help identify this revolver. Serial number is 2991 and it seems to match, caliber is not stamped anywhere but a 44 cal seems to fit. It is not in very good shape but I am of the opinion that they are all salvageable and worth saving! Personally I think the revolver is a perfect candidate for a complete re-do by Smith and Wesson along with a letter of certification from Mr Jinks and it would make a great display piece. Have a look at the pics and let me know what you think.
Best,
Marvin

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[Sebago Son]

.44 Double Action; First Model....

AKA: "New Model Navy No. 3".

Most likely, the chambering is .44 Russian. But similar guns were chambered in .44 WCF (.44-40) and were thus referred to as the "Frontier Model".

Top Break guns are not really my thing, but I thought that I'd jump in and show you a couple of snapshots of what they look like when near new...

For whatever reason, these guns don't seem to get the attention and following that their single action Schofield and New Model No.3 cousins do, but they are interesting nonetheless...

Drew

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Drew,
Thanks, those are great pictures! Any idea what year my gun was produced based on the serial number?
Thanks,
Marvin

 

[Sebago Son]

Marvin,

It's early in the production sequence, but as I said, I'm not really a top break guy... looking at my references, primarily the "Standard Catalog of S&W" by Jim Supica & Rick Nahas, I would guess something like 1881 (year of introduction) -82...

Drew

 

[glowe]

Based on guns near your serial number 1881-82 is a good guess. Problem is those guns were not always shipped as they were manufactured, and did not go out the door in order. A factory letter is your only accurate dating means.

Also, as an FYI, S&W does not refinish antique revolvers anymore, but there master refinishers out there, David Chicoine is one worth checking out. You should be sure your investment will be worth the undertaking as these .44 DAs have not been in strong demand by collectors. Many prefer the single action big bores from S&W, and so they usually command the higher prices.

Another advantage of going to a master gun refinisher is that they will be able to tell you about the mechanical condition, and if the barrel has been shortened, or the condition of the bore, etc. Before you spend your money, try to make sure the gun is in its original as manufactured state without alterations or modifications.

Best of luck,

Gary

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

These guns were usually known simply as the 44 Double Action. They are the only large frame double action Top Break revolvers that S&W made. I can tell you that I own SN 2428 and it was shipped in October of 1881. Yours was probably shipped sometime later, but I cannot tell you exactly when.

When you state that a 44 cal cartridge seems to fit, exactly what cartridge are you referring too? These guns were not chambered for 44 Special, they were chambered for 44 Russian and 44-40. The 44 Russian cartridge has the same dimensions as the 44 Special except it is about 1/10" shorter. 44-40 (also known as 44WCF for 44 Winchester Center Fire) has a very slight bottleneck to it. It is roughly the same length as a 45 Colt. Do not try to fire a 44 Special in a 44-40 chamber. The cartridge may chamber, but the chamber is the wrong dimensions for 44 Special.

Another way to tell the caliber is that with guns in your SN range the cylinders chambered for 44 Russian were 1 7/16" long. The cylinders chambered for the longer 38-40 and 44-40 cartridge were 1 9/16" long.

These are great old revolvers but they are made with 19th Century steel. Firing them with modern Smokeless ammunition is not recommended. They should only be fired with ammunition loaded with Black Powder. A gunsmith familiar with them should go over it before attempting to shoot it.

Unfortunately, S&W no longer works on these old revolvers. One gunsmith who does work on them is Dave Chicoine, the author of several books on old guns. He can be reached here:

oldwestgunsmith.com

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Gary,
Thanks for your advice. It certainly seems like $50 for the letter of authenticity is the way to go at this point, then determine where to go from there. As it stands, I have 0 in the gun and I do not consider it an investment....so any money spent on restoration would be the total investment in the gun. So, to have a restored gun from approx 1881 is very exciting.
Best,
Marvin

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Mr. Johnson,
Thanks for your insight, that is a big help and I seem to be making progress. The chamber on my gun is exactly 1 and 10/16.... What would you recommend for valuing the gun as it sits so I can simply establish a base value as I move forward?
Marvin

 

[Swiftmotoring]

One quick question....Has your revolver been refinished?
Marvin

 

[rhmc24]

Yours was originally nickeled, now in rough shape but doesn't seem to have bad pitting. If function is OK, an hour with Flitz polish could make it worth maybe $750 at auction. If refinished in blue maybe $100 more. A quality refinish can cost $300-500. Here is my 44-40 I refinished from finely pitted, took endless hours.

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Thank you, that is very helpful. Today, I sent off for the Jinks letter and also sent photos to David Chicoine asking his advice about refinishing the gun. I will determine the exact caliber tomorrow and then wait patiently for the Jinks letter which hopefully will tell me the gun is 100% original. At which point I will make a determination which direction to go. There is a dizzying amount of possibilities for the 130 year old revolvers and I am very thankful the Jinks letters are available. Does anyone have direct experience with Dave Chicoine? Thanks again,
Marvin

 

[twaits]

Thank you, that is very helpful. Today, I sent off for the Jinks letter and also sent photos to David Chicoine asking his advice about refinishing the gun. I will determine the exact caliber tomorrow and then wait patiently for the Jinks letter which hopefully will tell me the gun is 100% original. At which point I will make a determination which direction to go. There is a dizzying amount of possibilities for the 130 year old revolvers and I am very thankful the Jinks letters are available. Does anyone have direct experience with Dave Chicoine? Thanks again,
Marvin

I have dealt with both Dave Sr. and Dave Jr. They do top notch work and are really great guys. I highly recommend them.

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Thank you, that seems to be the concensus. What would you guys do if you had this revolver?
Marvin

 

[delta-419]

S&W 44

David mechanically rebuilt my Frontier 44-40 several years ago and it looked to be much worse than your revolver. It came back to me factory fresh, although it was not refinished. Highly suggest that you get it up to 100% mechanical condition before refinish. My 44 turned out to be a great shooter using black powder or substitute cartridges. I have a dozer or so breaktops and they are fun shooters. Good luck with your new toy!

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Today I determined my Top Break is a 44-40 but the serial number of 2991 seems to date it too early to be a Frontier model....any ideas?

 

[delta-419]

44-40

My 44-40 with serial number 222 shipped out of the factory on Oct 8, 1887 to M.W. Robinson in New York City, NY according to Mr. Jink's letter. S&W hardly shipped in serial number order. Hope this helps.

 

[Swiftmotoring]

Delta would you mind posting a pic of your 44-40?

 

[delta-419]

44-40

OK ! Will go thru my archives and post photos as I find them.

 

[delta-419]

44-40

Still trying to upload 44-40 photos! These are great shooters!

 

[twaits]

Thank you, that seems to be the concensus. What would you guys do if you had this revolver?
Marvin

If it functions I would leave it alone. Here's a picture of my 6.5" .44-40: