44 HE Second Model?

[dacoontz]

Pictured here is what I have been told is 44 caliber S&W. the serial number is also ebing reported as 33538. Everything looks fine except it looks possibly refinished and the extractor rod looks too new. Oh yeah, the grips are not to my liking either but hey some may liek them. Anyway, any ideas here. I checked the database and this one is surrounded by second and third models with various barrel lengths. Interested to see what you guys think.

 

[murphydog]

Daniel;

You have the correct ID in your title, as it has the unshrouded ejector rod. The photos make it difficult to be sure but it has the appearance of a factory finish; the logo on the left frame appears sharp, the sideplate doesn't have the gap from being removed and the hammer and trigger are still case-colored. Do you have the story behind it and any reasons to think it has been re-finished?

 

[dacoontz]

Alan, NO real reason to think refinish other than I was going off appearance alone as it doesn't look like the same blue that my prewar HD has. This belongs to a friend of mine in the Seattle area who has recently gone through his fathers collection of guns from a gunshop he owned and closed 30 years ago. This was part of his fathers collection and not something he had out for sale from what he recalls. That's about all I know.
Does the end of the extractor rod look correct on this? It doesn't look like the mushroom shaped ones you see on 2nd models more like something from a post war gun. Although looking at a post just below with a pic of 3rd model it does appear to have the same extractor rod but that one is shrouded. Are the rods the same regardless if they are shrouded or not?

 

[murphydog]

Yes, it appears to have a post-war ejector rod, with the end the same diameter as the rest of it, instead of the larger head. I really don't know what to make of the stocks - are they metal?

Hard to be sure if the gun is redone without more photos - lighting and camera angles can do funny things to gun finish appearance.

 

[Combat]

Nice gun, but your right the blueing don't look quite like it should for a gun of that era.The grips look like the ones made in Mexico. Sort of silver plate over pot metal.I like them anyway and I've been kinda looking for some for my grip collection.

 

[DCWilson]

That's the 1930s-style ejector rod knob, which is smaller than the mushroom-style knob seen on earlier revolvers, but still larger than the modern same-diameter knobs. Some of those 1930s knobs were used on the earliest postwar transitional guns to come off the assembly lines. So if this is a reworked gun, I'd guess it happened in the 1930s or first couple of years after WW2.

I'd also guess Mexico for the origins of the grips.

 

[handejector]

My guess is factory refinish. The color is just not quite right.

Later 2nd Models have that style ejector knob per the order of Jan 22, 1927.

You guys SHOULD all own a copy of Neal & Jinks.

 

[Hondo44]

The ejector knob cutout under the barrel is the correct shape for that knob so it appears to be original unless the barrel was also changed.

 

[murphydog]

My guess is factory refinish. The color is just not quite right.

Later 2nd Models have that style ejector knob per the order of Jan 22, 1927.

You guys SHOULD all own a copy of Neal & Jinks.

Lee;

I have the book, the photo on my iPhone screen still makes the ejector rod end look postwar .

 

[bettis1]

Really nervous about going against the boss here but I'm not completely comfortable in saying that the refinish is a factory one. I'd sure like to see more views before committing to that. Looks way too satiny and color just raises questions with me.

The grips are Mexican. They were quite common in the southwest back in the middle of the last century. Still see them being made but these would be old ones. Looks like a Mexican eagle and snake on the top of the left and an Aztec calendar on the right with rampant horses on the bottom on both sides. From the fit at the top, they may be made for a K frame. Non-the-less, they are very collectible.

Bob

 

[VonFatman]

Regardless of the re-finish (or not) you got yourself a very nice old .44 Special. I like those grips too. All around...you did very well.

Hey Boss-Man...I do happen to own a copy of Neal & Jinks...I purchased it several years ago after a crazed S&W collector made it clear I would need one...seems his handle had something to do with ejecting spent cases.

Bob

 

[dacoontz]

Anyone want to take a shot at value as original finish versus refinish, if that is the case? And I wish this was in my possession but it is not.

 

[roger bartlett]

Very nice 2nd model! Total production [1915-1937] was 17510- units not all that common, refinished or not . I have posted pix earlier of #38879 that has grips just like yours and was shipped to Mexico City in 1931 so I'd guess yours dates mid to late 20s. Ejector rod looks OK to me,can't estimate value due to having lost my objectivity on anything that is .44 and made by S&W, and would probably pay substantially more than any sane person would. Lots of luck, Bart

 

[Dan M]

dacoontz,

I'll throw out what I would be willing to pay.

A refinished 2nd model without the original grips $750 max if Factory refinish would add a little maybe $200.

An Original 2nd Model in 98% or better condition with Original Grips would be somewhere in the $2500 range to me but I am like others a little biased to the 44's.

Dan

 

[dacoontz]

Some more pics of this old timer

Looks like some marks that may show that it has been refinsihed. I think I see 772 under the grip on the left side there as well as an R-? in a box stamped under the grips.

 

[toroflow1]

I believe the "772" and "R" means a July 1972 factory rework date, most likely a factory reblue. Nice piece. Just need some orig grips.

Oh, and here's my 1926 vintage 2nd model, factory refinished in 1970:

 

[dacoontz]

Ken,
That's what I was thinking as well.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I believe the "772" and "R" means a July 1972 factory rework date, most likely a factory reblue. Nice piece. Just need some orig grips.

Oh, and here's my 1926 vintage 2nd model, factory refinished in 1970:

I believe that you are right. I also blew up the pic and you can clearly see there is an R-B in the rectangle, so it was re-blued at least once and by the factory.

I agree with Lee that the color doesn't look quite right, so maybe it has been re-blued more than once.

Whatever the case Daniel, you have a nice old gun there.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Lee,
doesn't the fact that it is a 5" gun make it kinda scarce?

 

[Alk8944]

dakoontz,

I was going to say it was refinished and suggest looking under the left stock as it does appear good enough to be factory. There are two giveaways that it is factory work without going past the first photos. First is the hammer & trigger that have been re-color case-hardened. The factory would have done this, and the re-cased guns I have have a flat, almost sand blasted look instead of being shiny, just like your photos. The factory in the 1970s was also bead blasting the front sights as yours is. This is not correct for a gun of this period. Correct me if I am wrong, as blowing up a photo tends to cause it to become quite pixilated, but the refinish mark appears to be a boxed R-S, not B. This denotes refinish-standard, which is blue. If R-B means bright blue and R-S denotes standard or service blue I don't know. Perhaps Lee could shed some light on this?

 

[dacoontz]

dakoontz,

I was going to say it was refinished and suggest looking under the left stock as it does appear good enough to be factory. There are two giveaways that it is factory work without going past the first photos. First is the hammer & trigger that have been re-color case-hardened. The factory would have done this, and the re-cased guns I have have a flat, almost sand blasted look instead of being shiny, just like your photos. The factory in the 1970s was also bead blasting the front sights as yours is. This is not correct for a gun of this period. Correct me if I am wrong, as blowing up a photo tends to cause it to become quite pixilated, but the refinish mark appears to be a boxed R-S, not B. This denotes refinish-standard, which is blue. If R-B means bright blue and R-S denotes standard or service blue I don't know. Perhaps Lee could shed some light on this?

Thanks Alk,
I appreciate the descriptive insight. Your explanation was very helpful. Thank you.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I might be wrong here, but I believe that Doc44 has stated here on the forum before that the R-S and R-B were used interchangeably, and from what I can determine in the SCSW that appears to be correct. If it it, then either could have been used for a reblue.