.44 Mag Keith Load

[brokenprism]

Does anyone know where I can find a Keith load in .44 Mag -- a 240 gr LSWC at between 900 and 1000 fps? It just seems like a natural and perfect load, and no one makes it. A little stiffer than .44 Spec, bun in long brass to avoid the carbod buildup in chambers. A good design with a wide meplat at a manageable velocity would be awesome for SD.

To reloaders who always like to say get into reloading: got components?
If you didn't have them stocked up, can you find them? I rest my case.

So that I don't waste space with a separate thread, does anyone know which of these two is hotter -- Federal 240 gr JHP or Remington 240 gr SJHP? A thread I read mentioned the Remington load as a good "fight stopper" (no doubt it is) but my experience is that Remington is usually on the hot side in any given caliber. I can imagine them downloading the .44 mag though.

BTW, how did Smith market the Model 29 when it first came out? As a hunting gun? Mention that you use one for SD and Mary Poppins leads a parade through the thread, but with the right load, it's not the scary choice it's made out to be. The Godl Dot short barrel load looks good, though I'd prefer a 240 gr bullet vs 200.

 

[kaaskop49]

brokenprism: Back in the 80s, W-W, R-P and CCI all made a 'medium load' for the .44Mag, a 240 grain bullet clocked out of a 4" bbl at about 950 fps. Don't know if they still produce it, I think not. R-P's version came in their yellow box line, I forget the designation. It was a flat point, not a true SWC. W-W's was a SWC; it looked identical to their full-charge round but it had a different cannelure. CCI: also a SWC. Perhaps some old boxes could be found at shows, but with the present frenzy?

 

[arjay]

I've been cranking em out of my old single stage for years.240 gr lswc + 9-10 gr unique= nice little load.

 

[alwslate]

Components are available, it just takes a bit of looking. To load one
load for one gun doesn't take much in the way of equipment or
components. You can certainly find basic equipment and limited
components faster and easier than some discontinued scarce types of
ammo. Start handloading! You'll be glad you did.

 

[brokenprism]

W-W's was a SWC; it looked identical to their full-charge round but it had a different cannelure.

I didn't know CCI made one. I'm always looking for a box of their 'Sheriff' load in the yellow plastic box. It was a JHP, or 'penta-point' as they liked to call it.

I found a box of the Winchester on GB last month, and snapped it up. 50 rds, no less. (Remember those days? I recall feeling a little steamed when boxes of 50 crossed the $20 line.) The seller shipped it on 2/25 and it isn't here yet. She tried to reassure me that it would be refunded if it didn't turn up, but the money wasn't as important as the ammo. They located it yesteday -- misrouted -- and it should be here soon.

I also found a gold mine of old Federal and Western. Paid just under a dollar a round with shipping. Also found a box of Smith & Wesson ammo, blue and white box. Would love to locate the Speer yellow box -- and a box of Norma .44 -- and make my collection complete.

 

[Nick B]

Components are available, it just takes a bit of looking. To load one
load for one gun doesn't take much in the way of equipment or
components. You can certainly find basic equipment and limited
components faster and easier than some discontinued scarce types of
ammo. Start handloading! You'll be glad you did.

Yep, stuff is around .I just got in a 1000 Speer .38 bullets from Midway .
Ordered them 4 days ago .

 

[MichiganScott]

I found a box of the Winchester on GB last month, and snapped it up. 50 rds, no less. (Remember those days? I recall feeling a little steamed when boxes of 50 crossed the $20 line.) The seller shipped it Priority Mail on 2/25 and it isn't here yet. She tried to reassure me that it would be refunded if it didn't turn up, but the money wasn't as important as the ammo. They located it yesteday -- misrouted -- and it should be here soon.

FWIW, it's illegal to mail ammunition. Good luck if the PO was told that a box of ammo was missing.

 

[358156hp]

Keiths 44 mag loads were around 1400 FPS. The 44 Special loads were around 1100 fps. This may be why you can't find them, they're not regular catalog items anywhere. Most 44 mag shooters want the biggest, and the baddest loads available, they don't share your practical views. As for reloading, cast 44 bullets seem to be available without long waits through most of the commercial casters. Primers are still hit & miss, but they are out there, it just requires research. Every gunstore in my area seems to have at least some suitable powder available. Perhaps not what you want, but something usable. Shotgun powders like Green Dot will get you respectable results.

 

[brokenprism]

I thought about going with a Lee Loader. I have time. When all this settles down, I'll look into reloading.

Yeah, I don't want flash bang -- I want to drive a heavy bullet with a sharp edge, and a wide meplat, slowly.

 

[silentflyer]

With Unique, 9 grains, 2400 20 grains SWC, if they are gas check SWC 10.5 Unique or 22 grains of 2400, all for 240 grain slugs.

 

[brokenprism]

FWIW, it's illegal to mail ammunition. Good luck if the PO was told that a box of ammo was missing.

I may have misread her. Not sure how it's coming, only that it was misrouted. I agree though, it would be stupid to break a reg for convenience. I used to mail guns 2nd Day Air through UPS before I read the rules. I'm lucky nothing went missing.

Moving a box of ammo from point A to point B in some kind of vehicle is a neutral risk scenario -- it's no safer to the public on a UPS truck than it is on a USPS truck. Why the rule? Like mailing a handgun through Priority Mail -- having an FFL makes it... what? Safer? Better?

Rules and laws are strange things. Their real purpose is concealed: the purpose of a law is only incidentally to deter a certain behavior. They acknowledge that the behavior will occur, or they wouldn't exist at all. A law's primary purpose is to supply a pretext for prosecution when it's broken.

 

[badge]

The original " Keith " load was 22 grains of 2400 for 1500 fps out an 8 3/8th .44. It is suggested that with more recent 2400 you load only 21 grains. Georgia Arms has a fairly stiff hunting load but it is a jacketed round. Just a thought.

 

[brokenprism]

Thanks, fellas. Thanks for the recipe Silentflyer. My Winchester finally arrived. The lady wrapped the box with brown paper, which tore. Had they wanted to, the Post Office could have seen the word Winchester.

She also wrapped the box with clear packing tape to keep it from opening. I bought it as a collectiible box, so getting that tape off without taking some box with it was not a 100% successful venture. Anyway, the ammo looks just like what I wanted. I don't know what the ballistics are -- it would be hard to find out after all these years. The box is labeled Medium Velocity though, so I'm sure it's right around what I want for carry.

 

[silentflyer]

Don't thank me, the credit all goes to Elmer and Skeeter, they were there a long time before I used their "recipies"...after trying a bunch of stuff years ago, I found theirs worked the best.

 

[Jcbdc]

In my issue of "Hell, I was there". He talks about 18 1/2 grains of 2400 behind his 250 grain bullet in .44 special. Too much for me. He must have been a heck of a little man to handle the recoil.

 

[Jcbdc]

In the .44 mag. He used 22 gr. of 2400! Search for copies of his books.
I think it's: www.elmerkeithshoots.org
After my stroke robbed my ability to read I am trying to relearn by reading shooting books on my iPad which I can enlarge. Hard to read but I can still shoot!

 

[Harkrader]

Broken Prism:
.44 S&W Special commercial defense loads:
Cor Bon- 165 gr. JHP
Cor-Bon- 200 gr. DPX
Buffalo Bore- 180gr, or 225 Keith JHP, 1,150 to 1,000 fps.
Double Tap- 200 gr. Gold Dot

Should handle the 4-legged threats with ease, and any 2-legged threat not on crack, and then you just need shot placement: BANG BANG! BANG BANG BANG BANG! Reload, reapply as necessary.
-Harkrader

 

[brokenprism]

BB 'anti-personnel' LSWCHP .44 spec looks perfect. Pricey though.

 

[358156hp]

Speer offers a neat 200 gr Gold Dot 44 Spl load in Blazer, of all lines. It should be a great SD load, if you can find some.

 

[Texas Star]

That 18.5 grain .44 Special load was for balloon head cases! He dropped that to 17.5 grains for the newer solid head cases. Be very careful what you post: you could cause a mishap.

Elmer always said that his 22.0 grains of 2400 .44 Magnum load gave about 1400 FPS, not 1500.

Some people posting here either have a memory problem or a reading comprehension problem.

And keep in mind that burning rates of some powders and the means of measuring pressure have changed. Use current loading data. Keith's loads date to the 1950's!

BTW, I saw him shoot a .44 Magnum while in his 70's, and he had no problem handling recoil. He also hit the target... at 200 yards!