.44 Magnum +P for M329

All of these recent talks of carrying nuclear loads being too risky for the benefit has caused me to switch to some nice Hornady 240gr XTPs after years of carrying the Buffalo Bore nuclear stuff. I feel good about it. 1350 FPS with a 240gr projectile is still enough power for anything I'll come across in VA.
 
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All of these recent talks of carrying nuclear loads being too risky for the benefit has caused me to switch to some nice Hornady 240gr XTPs after years of carrying the Buffalo Bore nuclear stuff. I feel good about it. 1350 FPS with a 240gr projectile is still enough power for anything I'll come across in VA.

When dealing with animals penetration is far more important than expansion and the risk of collateral damage is virtually nonexistent, so you want to carry ammo with a solid gas-checked or preferably hardcast semiwadcutter bullet.

You want a bullet that punches straight through fur, hide, muscle, and bone without stopping, slowing down, or deforming.
 
The 240gr XTP is my "multi purpose" bullet. Truthfully I would prefer a 300gr XTP. I totally agree that a SWC would be the most effective penetrator, but I still prefer an expanding bullet to hunt with here in VA. Somewhere where the critters get much bigger and more dangerous I would probably be carrying a SWC. YMMV
 
Well, let me ask another way. Assuming I am going to carry a M329 as my only pistol, what ammo to use in grizzly country? My reading indicates I will be lucky to get off one shot, very lucky to get 2, and unlikely to get 3 at a charging bear. So 1 shot of something I can recover with, and a second shot of the biggest the gun can handle?

As someone pointed out above, HSM makes what they can a Bear load. Buffalo Bore and Underwood also make similar loads. You want a 300+ Gr. Hard cast flat point bullet.

If you do get a 329, try out a cylinder of these loads to make sure you don't have any problems.

Here's an article from Tim Sundles from Buffalo Bore on Trail & Camp guns you might find helpful.

https://buffalobore.net/Trail&CampGuns.pdf

And also:

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
 
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I can't figure out why some of you are so hung up on thinking it's pointless to try and squeeze the most power possible out of a cartridge. I understand your point, but telling people to buy another caliber if factory 44mag isn't enough seems counterproductive. You don't have to be a handloader to appreciate the nuance between different loadings for the same caliber. 44mag is very versatile. Why not utilize its versatility?

All this being said, "+p" out of a 329 would be BRUTAL as far as recoil goes.

I get your point. Back in the day we carried 7.5" barrel Ruger Super Blackhawks loaded with 240 hard cast that were probably making over 1,200 lb-ft of energy. I did then, and would today be supremely confident in my ability to put the first one dead center of a bear's snarling face, followed by the next five in under 2 seconds. For those who know, a single-action can be fired with blinding speed using two-handed hold, cocking with the support thumb as the gun is in recoil and right back down. With that long barrel the big Ruger "points" perfectly. When I was younger we used to run our own "drills" shooting exactly that way, for exactly that purpose.

There is a great deal of embellishment on the internet about what it takes to drop a bear and how "impossible" it is. Sadly, that's not even close to reality. Otherwise we'd have more bears.

But now, everybody wants to carry a snubnose 2" revolver that weighs 14 ounces, while thinking they can get the same power, accuracy, and speed - they can't. When magnum barrels go under 4" velocity starts dropping fast, and many factory loads are "under" loaded on top of that. Thus you end up with a lot of KICK, blast, and poor "pointability" on target. I have a beautiful M69 44 magnum that would never be my first, second, or third choice to carry with full power loads against dangerous animal attack because the gun is too light, to short, and cannot deliver the sauce a larger version with longer barrel can.

Now, having said all that, and having a lifetime of personal experience in the field of dangerous animals, my personal preference is to carry a S&W M500 6.5" barrel. It's not any heavier than larger 44 magnums, but the cartridge is so grossly overpowered, one need not worry about pushing the loads. I made up a rather modest load with a 380 grain hard cast GC slug that clocked 1,543 fps for 2,009 fpe...a VERY controllable load that I can shoot DA with excellent recovery and control as fast as I can shoot any 44. Another internet myth is that big-bore revolvers have some outlandish recoil dwell-time during which the Earth stops rotating until the gun "comes down out of recoil! This is not true. With the longer barrel, that M500 points perfectly, and I pity the bear who makes the mistake of running face-first into one of those slugs!

I do want to get in a "shameless plug" for one of my favorite big bore calibers and that's the 460 Rowland. Again, in bear country, a Glock longslide with 6.6" barrel and LWD comp weighing only 34 ounces empty, and taking 11 rounds using a fully reliable 10-rd single-stack mag, Launched Underwood's 255 gr. hard cast at 1,384 fps for 1,085 lb-ft of energy. That's nearly 1,100 foot-pounds per slug x 11 slugs = 11,935 lb-ft of energy that CAN be fired with full control and accuracy. I would have no reluctance whatsoever facing down a charging anything on the North American continent with that pistol!

But back to the point about the 44 magnum. It IS a very powerful round even today, and if fired from a larger, longer-barreled revolver, it will also take down anything foolish enough to run right up the bore axis!
 
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If I were to be in Salmon country with the possibility of an angry bear around the corner I would not be carrying a handgun. I admit no experience with the 460 or 500 S&W offerings. I have heard of their great power and recoil. However they are still handguns and my personal preference would be my old 375 H&H with a 22" bbl and 2X power scope--very fast and easy to sight at close range and very final on anything that walks in North America. This gun is relatively easy to handle and beats most any practical handgun.
 
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Skip anything labeled +P... A 300 grain Hard Cast "Keith" bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1150fps will put a hurtin' on a Brownie with center mass shots.
 
I read the 44 Mag "hot bear loads" threads, in anticipation for my hopeful retirement in salmon country.

I understand the premise that "if you need more gun, get a .500" but what I think some are missing is that the 329 is a 24oz .44 mag, and to get "more gun" you need to more than double the weight of the gun. That is fine for hanging around the camp, not so good if hiking all day.

If I ever have to use a +P load, it will be because my life is in danger and I won't care if the gun gets beat up. I don't plan to mingle with grizzlies...

So anyway, who has any info on the hottest load for the M329 that won't blow it up? tia Skip

Underwood has that:
44 Remington Magnum 305 Grain Lead Long Flat Nose Gas Check – Underwood Ammo

Standard pressure 44 magnum load with a 305 grain slug.

I personally like Underwood's 255 grain SWC.
 
Taken from " The Sixguns and Loads of Elmer Keith " by John Taffin

"Keith early settled on 22.0 grains of 2400 with his Lyman # 429421 , 245 grain cast SWC bullet for 1225 fps out of a 4" S&W , 1400 fps out of a 6 1/2 S&W or 7 1/2 " Ruger .
These are hunting handloads pure and simple with this load taking big game all over the world. "

It's always wise to take advice doled out by Elmer Keith when it concerns the 44 magnum and sixguns .

Gary
 
I have purposely loaded Elmers 22 gr load using his bullet " HG 503 " . After the first 5-6 rounds I got used to it and found it quite easy to handle and shoot . I was using a 4" barrel (same length as Elmer used ) in a Smith 29-10 . It is a powerful load , make no mistake about it . Regards, Paul
 
Taken from " The Sixguns and Loads of Elmer Keith " by John Taffin

"Keith early settled on 22.0 grains of 2400 with his Lyman # 429421 , 245 grain cast SWC bullet for 1225 fps out of a 4" S&W , 1400 fps out of a 6 1/2 S&W or 7 1/2 " Ruger .
These are hunting handloads pure and simple with this load taking big game all over the world. "

It's always wise to take advice doled out by Elmer Keith when it concerns the 44 magnum and sixguns .

Gary

And yet the urban legend persists that Elmer Keith was apparently some sort of self-destructive maniac recoil junky who was never satisfied until his handloads caused a KABOOM, just so that he could buy a stronger revolver and start over again.

Meanwhile, in reality Elmer Keith reportedly only ever blew up a single revolver in his life, a Colt Single Action Army .45, and it didn't even actually blow up because the load was too hot, but rather because he attempted to load a 45-70 bullet in a .45 Long Colt cartridge, which in turn resulted in a massive pressure spike as the .458 bullet engaged the rifling of a barrel made for .452 bullets.
 
And yet the urban legend persists that Elmer Keith was apparently some sort of self-destructive maniac recoil junky who was never satisfied until his handloads caused a KABOOM, just so that he could buy a stronger revolver and start over again.

Meanwhile, in reality Elmer Keith reportedly only ever blew up a single revolver in his life, a Colt Single Action Army .45, and it didn't even actually blow up because the load was too hot, but rather because he attempted to load a 45-70 bullet in a .45 Long Colt cartridge, which in turn resulted in a massive pressure spike as the .458 bullet engaged the rifling of a barrel made for .452 bullets.
Well said !
I have to agree .
Gary
 
If I were concerned that a 48 ounce gun is too much for hiking all day, I'd buy lighter boots.
 
Keep in mind that the 44 Magnum only has about half of the energy of a 30-30 Winchester. In spite of this, there are probably a lot of folks who would say a 30-30 is a little light for bear protection.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose.
 

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