magload1
Member
I would appreciate help in identifying my revolver. Serial no. 6980. 8 inch barrel, nickle plated, single action, 1 7/16 cylinder. Thanks in advance, Don.
44 russian
- Thread starter magload1
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sw44russ
Member
Welcome Don, some photos would be great and would also mean a positive I.D. of your Revolver, if its a Russian; it sounds like it might be a 1st Model.
What is Stamped on the Top Rib? English or the old Russian 'Cyrillic' Script? Does it say 'Russian Model'?
I've noticed a lot of Guns get described as 'Russian' but turn out to be one of the more common No.3 Frames like a New Model or even a DA in 44 Russian Calibre.
Only pictures will yield an accurate I.D. for you.
What is Stamped on the Top Rib? English or the old Russian 'Cyrillic' Script? Does it say 'Russian Model'?
I've noticed a lot of Guns get described as 'Russian' but turn out to be one of the more common No.3 Frames like a New Model or even a DA in 44 Russian Calibre.
Only pictures will yield an accurate I.D. for you.
Best guess, is a New Model #3, revolver; one of 35,000 (+/-), manufactured from 1878 to 1912, available in a dozen or so calibers (yours being the most popular), in eight different barrel lengths (yours being the longest, probably the rarest---and more than a little desirable---especially if it has target sights).
Ralph Tremaine
And given sw44russ' reply (which is entirely possible), if it's a rather ungainly looking beast with some seemingly inexplicable humps, bumps, and other protrusions, he very likely gets a cookie. If, on the other hand, it's a smooooooooth, svelte, downright pretty thing, that one might enjoy just looking at it, then I do---------unless somebody else does.
Ralph Tremaine
And given sw44russ' reply (which is entirely possible), if it's a rather ungainly looking beast with some seemingly inexplicable humps, bumps, and other protrusions, he very likely gets a cookie. If, on the other hand, it's a smooooooooth, svelte, downright pretty thing, that one might enjoy just looking at it, then I do---------unless somebody else does.
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opoefc
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Don, As you can see above, there's a lot of guessing going on. We don't even know if you have a Smith & Wesson, or just a copy. Pls. see the sticky that details what you need to tell us for a correct answer and pictures will help a lot. Tell us ALL the stampings, including all numbers, and where they are stamped. Round butt or Square butt? Patent date stampings ? Good Luck, Ed.
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sw44russ
Member
Re-reading the original post, I think Ralph has this one solved; 1 7/16'' is too long for a Russian Model Cylinder but is correct for a NM3 in 44 Russian Cal.
I've seen All manner of S&Ws and Copies thereof billed as 'Russians' - one was on GB for an astronomical price and had '44 Frontier' stamped on the Top Rib and looked (a bit) like a 1st Model DA!!! - Probably a Spanish or Belgian counterfeit...
If this one is a SA, it's a pretty safe bet Ralph has nailed it..
Wow; an 8 incher!! Cant wait to see the pics!!
I've seen All manner of S&Ws and Copies thereof billed as 'Russians' - one was on GB for an astronomical price and had '44 Frontier' stamped on the Top Rib and looked (a bit) like a 1st Model DA!!! - Probably a Spanish or Belgian counterfeit...
If this one is a SA, it's a pretty safe bet Ralph has nailed it..
Wow; an 8 incher!! Cant wait to see the pics!!
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sw44russ
Member
Appears to be a 1st Model Russian; 1st issue.
Oddball front sight.
Still need to know what is 'written' (Stamped) on the Top Rib.
Could be a copy; but if real, you have a remarkable Gun.
Joe Leiper is the resident expert on these; I have a 1st Model, but it's a later Issue, with a slightly different Frame. As the Russians specified Improvements; the Commercial Russian (Domestic Market Models) and the Sister Model Americans incorporated the same Improvements. It's a fascinating Story and determined a great deal in S&W and Firearm History and Development. Have a look here for chapter one.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-an...tract-russian.html?highlight=russian+contract
Oddball front sight.
Still need to know what is 'written' (Stamped) on the Top Rib.
Could be a copy; but if real, you have a remarkable Gun.
Joe Leiper is the resident expert on these; I have a 1st Model, but it's a later Issue, with a slightly different Frame. As the Russians specified Improvements; the Commercial Russian (Domestic Market Models) and the Sister Model Americans incorporated the same Improvements. It's a fascinating Story and determined a great deal in S&W and Firearm History and Development. Have a look here for chapter one.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-an...tract-russian.html?highlight=russian+contract
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Shows you how much I know---I thought that was an American too---until I looked in the book---and saw a picture that said different. But I have an excuse: If'n you couldn't get it with target sights, I don't know nothin' about it---nohow!!!
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
sw44russ
Member
You could be right Larry; though there is a line in there if you look closely. Bored out Chambers? Cant quite make sense of the stampings on that case sitting in there either.
There are a few anomalies here - the 1 7/16'' quoted for the cylinder is not right for a Russian Model (or an American if I'm correct) Front sight, though they are often 'personalised'.
We still don't know what's on the Top Rib.
If the cartridge is a 44 Russian, it should not chamber in an American. Definitely looks Re-Nickeled.
Maybe a 'Hermanos'?
sw44russ
Member
You are right about the Cartridge Larry.
I'm inclined to agree with your judgment. It's looking a lot like that Blanket Term - 'Russian' has thrown me off the trail again!!
I think 'Russian' can be translated as 'Top Break' a lot of the time!!
Still a nice Gun - just so long as it turns out to have 'Smith & Wesson' on the Top Rib!! It's certainly an early one or - based on an early one if it's not a Smith. No bump at the Pin near the Trigger Guard.
I'm inclined to agree with your judgment. It's looking a lot like that Blanket Term - 'Russian' has thrown me off the trail again!!
I think 'Russian' can be translated as 'Top Break' a lot of the time!!
Still a nice Gun - just so long as it turns out to have 'Smith & Wesson' on the Top Rib!! It's certainly an early one or - based on an early one if it's not a Smith. No bump at the Pin near the Trigger Guard.
jleiper
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Close examination of the cylinder face pictures show what is likely an assembly number. There could be a slight ridge in the cylinder bores but usually the step is really obvious. My guess is that it is an American from the transition period. Better pictures will help.
We need pictures of the inside of the right grip, and frame under that grip. (It should have the same number there as on the cylinder face, underside of the latch and rear face of the barrel extension. Those numbers appear to be there in the cylinder face photo).
The needed picture is the to of the barrel with the address stamp. I'll be surprised if this isn't a transitional American.
Joe
We need pictures of the inside of the right grip, and frame under that grip. (It should have the same number there as on the cylinder face, underside of the latch and rear face of the barrel extension. Those numbers appear to be there in the cylinder face photo).
The needed picture is the to of the barrel with the address stamp. I'll be surprised if this isn't a transitional American.
Joe
jleiper
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
That means the grips are original - that number should match the number on the bottom of the butt. there should be another number where there seems to be sone corrosion on the right side of the butt.
Joe
BTW the top strap marks confirm it is a Smith and the it is an American Model.
Joe
BTW the top strap marks confirm it is a Smith and the it is an American Model.
jleiper
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
You have an American Model with all original parts.
Joe
opoefc
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Joe has come up with the correct answer - It's an American model, not an OOM ( Old Model Russian ) and if it was an OOM, it would have to be one of the first two civilian .44 Russian caliber Model 3s made and these two samples were sent to M.W.Robinson in 1871. ( 5 revolvers in .44Russian were also sent to the Russians in 1871 as samples. ) Serial numbers reached 6900 by the end of 1871. Ed.
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jleiper
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It is definitely an American, but it is a transitional American. At least a couple of significant features of the Russian changes asked for by Gorlov can be seen in the photos of the cylinder face and hammer - note the wide cylinder retainer and the Russian style hammer and barrel latch. I would guess that there are other transitional mechanical changes as well, but they are harder to see without disassembling the revolver. It does retain the early American style frame, trigger and hinge pin. Nice revolver!
Joe
Joe
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