44wheelman
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oops, double post
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.44 spc,Truth or Myth?
- Thread starter cherrypointmarine
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Old Corp
Member
Have a recent Ruger Bisley BH .44 Spl., 5.5". (The closest I'll ever get to a famous 'Elmer's #5 revolver').
Could I load it up to magnum whomper loads? Probably so. But I didn't get it for that.
I have a M629 6" that I hunt with some, and it handles magnum level loads with aplomb.
Hope to hunt with the Bisley some, I'm sure it will do fine.
Could I load it up to magnum whomper loads? Probably so. But I didn't get it for that.
I have a M629 6" that I hunt with some, and it handles magnum level loads with aplomb.
Hope to hunt with the Bisley some, I'm sure it will do fine.
OP
cherrypointmarine
Member
thanks a lot guys, it looks like I'm not the only one who gets that magazine. Never would I do what was mentioned in that article, but it made interesting reading.Like someone said, theres something about the .44spc. That must have been a time when men were men, and men carried a .44spc. Thanks a lot guys!
model70hunter
Member
Your last sentence is right, men carried 44 Specials. Not a 44 mag by another name.
Guns are replaceable, fingers not so much.
Several mentioned Skeeter loads, Keith style bullets and 900-950 FPS. Pretty much do any thing.
And Big Bill I once loaded a few boxes of very hot 45 Colt for my Ruger. I probably was thinking I was Elmer. Super hot, but I never flinched nor worried about the Ruger.
Guns are replaceable, fingers not so much.
Several mentioned Skeeter loads, Keith style bullets and 900-950 FPS. Pretty much do any thing.
And Big Bill I once loaded a few boxes of very hot 45 Colt for my Ruger. I probably was thinking I was Elmer. Super hot, but I never flinched nor worried about the Ruger.
Truth or Myth? Complete myth; the 44 Special cannot match the Magnum, let alone out-perform it at safe pressures.
If you load it that hot, you may not love it any more!
Frank46
US Veteran
And while you may or may not know it the 44 special on this website has a following bordering almost to a cult following. For years I was scrounging once fired 44 special brass. Thought I'd never get one. That gallon bag of 44 special brass went to a friend who had bought one of the Ruger 44 specials that one of the big gun houses had commissioned. That revolver was put in regular production. After the bag of brass was gone I came upon a 6.5" bbld 624 almost new in the box with paperwork, tools and cleaning kit. And no brass. Couple months later walking past a dealers showcase I found a 3"bbld24-3 lew horton gun, and a few months later another 24-3 with the 4" barrel. and I haven't seen another since. Had to get some starline 44 special brass and a 3 die set to reload with. Gotta watch the the guys on this forum. They will enable you to death so you have to go out and get what you posted on this forum. welcome to the 44 special club. Frank
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To summarize the excellent posts above:
You are asking two questions. Yes, you can load .44 Special hotter than factory .44 Magnum loads. It is not the "strength of the rounds" that is the concern, it is the safety factor in firing them in your 24-3 and 696. Any loads generating .44 Magnum pressures (or higher, given the smaller Special case) should be fired in...a .44 Magnum, properly constructed and heat-treated to withstand such stresses. So the second question, should you use them in your guns...I wouldn't.
Enjoy your new .44s!
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I don't know why you would WANT to do that, even if it was ballistically and mechanically safe. The .44 Special revolvers have all been lighter, meaning built with less steel, than the .44 Magnum revolvers from the same gun makers. With the same loads fired in a Special and a Magnum, the Special will kick harder.
I read Skelton and Keith extensively when I started shooting in the early 1970's. A .44 Special field gun was high on my list. I got a Charter Arms Bulldog, but it wasn't a field gun.
I bought a new Model 28 Highway Patrolman and a new 4 inch .44 caliber S&W barrel from J&G Rifle Ranch, then in Turner, Montana, and had the best local gunsmith, the late Robert Ballard, build me a fake 1950 Target in .44 Special. A couple of years later, I got a new 7-1/2 inch Colt SAA in .44 Special. By then I also had a Model 29 .44 Mag with an 8-3/8 inch barrel and was casting my own bullets.
Like many curious (translated to 'inexperienced') Keith- and Skelton-reading handloaders of the day, I had to try out Keith's hot .44 Special load, 17.5 grains of 2400 under a cast Lyman 429421 cast SWC, sparked by a standard LP primer.
I had Pachmayr Compacs on the Bulldog, and Pachmayr Presentations on my ersatz 1950/Model 28. I fired one round of the Keith load in the Bulldog. It nearly embedded itself in my forehead and split the skin on the web of my hand. It retired to the shooting bag.
The ersatz 1950/Model 28 kicked really hard. I could smack the black at 25 yards single action, but double action was useless to me.
The Colt Single Action did more than it's normal "roll" upon each shot, it also tried to escape from my paws. It also kicked the hammer back, sometimes to half-cock, but a few times to full cock.
Being a virile, strong young working man, I hadn't expected this to be so unpleasant. I genuinely worried it might damage my guns. I had to knock all empties out one at a time with some force.
I finished off the 100 Keith rounds with the long Model 29. It was amazing how those extra ounces of steel in the long, heavy barrel mollified the recoil.
I think now, looking back, that the flash and muzzle blast may have served to really amplify the recoil sensation with the hot rounds. The blast from the 4 inch S&W actually knocked over the tripod my chronograph skyscreens were on. One round clocked from the 7-1/2 inch Colt just broke the 1,200 fps barrier.
Before the advent of the .44 Magnum guns and cartridges, there may have been some call to handload the .44 Special for extra poop, but the arrival of the Magnum cartridge eliminated it. I believe now, that if I need much over 900 fps from a 250-260 grain handgun bullet, I need to look for it in a Magnum. Skeeter's 7.5 grains of Unique, or it's equivalent, does it for me in the modern (post-WWII) .44 Special, while my First and Second Models will get .44 Special factory load equivalent, which is about 700 fps with a 246-250 grain lead bullet.
When I shoot Magnums now in my Model 629 Mountain gun, the experience takes me back 40 years! When I first shot them in my Model 329, I had flashbacks!
Thus began the pussification of BUFF. I should have turned in my man card.
I read Skelton and Keith extensively when I started shooting in the early 1970's. A .44 Special field gun was high on my list. I got a Charter Arms Bulldog, but it wasn't a field gun.
I bought a new Model 28 Highway Patrolman and a new 4 inch .44 caliber S&W barrel from J&G Rifle Ranch, then in Turner, Montana, and had the best local gunsmith, the late Robert Ballard, build me a fake 1950 Target in .44 Special. A couple of years later, I got a new 7-1/2 inch Colt SAA in .44 Special. By then I also had a Model 29 .44 Mag with an 8-3/8 inch barrel and was casting my own bullets.
Like many curious (translated to 'inexperienced') Keith- and Skelton-reading handloaders of the day, I had to try out Keith's hot .44 Special load, 17.5 grains of 2400 under a cast Lyman 429421 cast SWC, sparked by a standard LP primer.
I had Pachmayr Compacs on the Bulldog, and Pachmayr Presentations on my ersatz 1950/Model 28. I fired one round of the Keith load in the Bulldog. It nearly embedded itself in my forehead and split the skin on the web of my hand. It retired to the shooting bag.
The ersatz 1950/Model 28 kicked really hard. I could smack the black at 25 yards single action, but double action was useless to me.
The Colt Single Action did more than it's normal "roll" upon each shot, it also tried to escape from my paws. It also kicked the hammer back, sometimes to half-cock, but a few times to full cock.
Being a virile, strong young working man, I hadn't expected this to be so unpleasant. I genuinely worried it might damage my guns. I had to knock all empties out one at a time with some force.
I finished off the 100 Keith rounds with the long Model 29. It was amazing how those extra ounces of steel in the long, heavy barrel mollified the recoil.
I think now, looking back, that the flash and muzzle blast may have served to really amplify the recoil sensation with the hot rounds. The blast from the 4 inch S&W actually knocked over the tripod my chronograph skyscreens were on. One round clocked from the 7-1/2 inch Colt just broke the 1,200 fps barrier.
Before the advent of the .44 Magnum guns and cartridges, there may have been some call to handload the .44 Special for extra poop, but the arrival of the Magnum cartridge eliminated it. I believe now, that if I need much over 900 fps from a 250-260 grain handgun bullet, I need to look for it in a Magnum. Skeeter's 7.5 grains of Unique, or it's equivalent, does it for me in the modern (post-WWII) .44 Special, while my First and Second Models will get .44 Special factory load equivalent, which is about 700 fps with a 246-250 grain lead bullet.
When I shoot Magnums now in my Model 629 Mountain gun, the experience takes me back 40 years! When I first shot them in my Model 329, I had flashbacks!
Thus began the pussification of BUFF. I should have turned in my man card.
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Pisgah
Member
It's interesting to note that Elmer Keith was after essentially a factory-loaded +P .44 Special load and a revolver to handle it, something on the order of a 240 gr. bullet at 1000-1100 fps. What he got from Remington and S&W exceeded his desires substantially. He was delighted with the Magnum, and immediately claimed to have "invented" it -- but it ain't so. Even Elmer wouldn't have been comfortable with Magnum-level loads in his .44 Special.
OP
cherrypointmarine
Member
Guys, I am not saying I would do it. I was just looking to see if what I read was true. As we all know, magazines are NEVER wrong.
You make me grin, Frank. I have the same two diseases. First is my infatuation with 44 Specials. It probably needs no further explanation.
Second, I have trouble having brass and dies yet nothing in which to use them. So that usually starts a search for an appropriate firearm. I will admit, though, you bested me on one angle. I haven't yet disposed of said orphan components only to locate a gun shortly thereafter. That may be because I never get rid of brass. Perhaps that's a third disease. . . .
Vulcan Bob
Member
A lot of good thoughts here! So I'll throw in my two cents worth, In my Specials a 250gr Lyman #429421 at 950-975 fps will handle just about any job here in the lower 48 that needs done. Can you get hotter, sure if you don't like your revolver or fingers and such.
an excellent article, and probably the best on the cartridge.... for you to enjoy:
Brian Pearce on the 44 Special
Hopefully it answers any questions you may have
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In this month's GUN's magazine which I just got in the mail yesterday, John Taffin's "Campfire Tales" column has an article talking about this exact subject and how a gunwriter from the 40's, John Lachuk, spent a lot of time experimenting with loading up the .44 Spl with 185 & 200 gr. bullets to magnum levels and eventually came up with the .44 Lancer using cut down .405 Winchester rifle brass, that have a solid case rim.
His wildcat developed in the mid 40's was essentially the .44 Magnum long before Remington came out with the .44 Magnum in 1956 with a case length identical to Lachuk's .44 Lancer.
The guns that LaChuk used to experiment with was a Colt New Frontier and the SSA in .44 Spl.
This must be the what the OP is referring to about reading something in a magazine.
His wildcat developed in the mid 40's was essentially the .44 Magnum long before Remington came out with the .44 Magnum in 1956 with a case length identical to Lachuk's .44 Lancer.
The guns that LaChuk used to experiment with was a Colt New Frontier and the SSA in .44 Spl.
This must be the what the OP is referring to about reading something in a magazine.
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John Lachuk's most prolific writing period was probably during the '60s and '70s. I don't recall him promoting his own .44 cartridge to any great extent.
However, he wrote a great deal on handloading .44 cartridges, particularly the .44 Special. While I don't remember him advocating dangerous handloads, there may have been a few hot ones listed, though accepted by most as safe at that time.
Haven't seen any of the old Lachuk material in a long while. He was a regular contributor to several of the various GUN DIGEST publications and GUNS & AMMO when it was among the best of the gun magazines. For the time, he was certainly among the better gunwriters.
However, he wrote a great deal on handloading .44 cartridges, particularly the .44 Special. While I don't remember him advocating dangerous handloads, there may have been a few hot ones listed, though accepted by most as safe at that time.
Haven't seen any of the old Lachuk material in a long while. He was a regular contributor to several of the various GUN DIGEST publications and GUNS & AMMO when it was among the best of the gun magazines. For the time, he was certainly among the better gunwriters.
wxl
Member
Same charge (moderate, not magnum charge) in 44Sp case versus 44Mag case means higher pressure in 44Sp (smaller brass volume) thus higher velocity.
Jim Watson
Member
Before the .44 Magnum came out, Bert Shea magnumized the .44 with .30-06 cases cut to 1.315" in a cylinder rechambered for case mouth headspace at that length. Only feasible in a single action, of course. He said it would do about 100 fps more than a heavily loaded .44 Special, which hardly seems worth the trouble and expense.
And people NEVER misunderstand something they've read.
It would be best if you could provide a complete, verbatim quote from the magazine. If they really wrote what you think they wrote, they may be in a position to get the bejeezus sued out of them. I'd like to see it in their exact words.
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I have a good 44 Spcl that I loaded with Corbon stuff, and I did NOT like the results. After a dozen of them, I remembered why I bought a 44 Spcl instead of a 44 Magnum. The Special is a very respectable cartridge as is. I use LSWC of the Kieth style for casual shooting, and I've fired some 44 Russian in it. That was nice! At home it is loaded with factory Winchester silvertips awaiting uninvited guests. Just enjoy it for what it is - a pleasant shooting big bore revolver.
