.44 Special Mania

[keith44spl]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered...

I just do not see the need for a new made N frame in 44 Special...

To me it is "waste of skin"... as a Klingon would say.

Why not make them all 44 Mag.

Oh for sure, shoot light 44 Special type loads most of the time, but then you have the option of going to the 44 Mag when/if you need it.

My Mountain Gun has the same slim barrel as a 44 Special, and handles just as good.

If I knew I would only ever need "44 Special" power then I would get a S&W in 45 ACP. I would then have the advantage of Full Moon Clips or the ability to use Auto Rim brass...


Don't even ask me about my thoughts on the 41 Mag. [And I did have and carry a Mod 58 as a work gun... If it had been a "M&P in 44 Mag I would still have it.

Oh My Oh My,
It just wouldn't be the same.

These jest wouldn't do to be maggies...

And yes, I do carry and shoot 'em often.

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[brionic]

Oooh! Very very very nice!
--
Brian

 

[Joe Kent]

keith44spec., Dave, I hate it when you show those. Everytime you or Onomea show your slicked up Iron it ends up costing me money. Still, keep it up I love to see quality work, thanks again. All my best, Joe.

 

[Dregg]

Awesome set of wheel guns you have there.
I understand your logic about "collecting". I have a few that I haven't shot yet but, that may change. I'm finding as I get older, I realize i'll never part with my stuff. That means my offspring will benefit. Why give them all "new" stuff?...lol

About 3 years ago, I bought a small collection of pistols and revolvers that sat idle for 17 years. The person who originally owned the guns was a shooter. He pretty much shot every gun in the collection with the exception of about 2 pieces. His son inherited the guns and they sat unfired for 17 years until I purchased them. When I take some of them to the range, I think of the fella that had them originally. I shoot them, clean them, and care for them. I want the same done to my collection when I pass. I want my lil' guy to shoot and enjoy them just like i'm doing now.

 

[butchkent]

Wow! Those are some nice collections of .44's.

I'll add some of mine, 24's, 29's, 696, Cimmaron Mdl P's, Ruger FT, USFA.

 

[feralmerril]

NE450n02. You do have a point. I have been one of the biggest defenders of the .44 special. You mentioned the mountain gun in .44 mag. That is the best curve ball you could have threw. Untill relatively lately, we didnt have the skinny barrel mountain gun to argue about. All smith versions of the 29 had the heavy straight barrel. It was easier to defend all the reasons I would give before the mountain gun showed up.
Now, I dont know just how easy it is to find a mountain gun, and one that was pre lock. I dont have one, and dont need one as I already have a 5" model 29-2 and six various .44 specials. I admit IF I didnt own all those guns and was starting fresh knowing what I do, I would look for a pre lock mountain gun in .44 mag. However, if you are going to shoot a lot of hot loads I suppose you would be better off with the heavier barrel 29 than the MG?
So with the one caviot you threw, I still will pick a special over the mag.!

 

[HUMONGO]

Thanks, now I must have a 3" 624.

 

[ElToro]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered...

I just do not see the need for a new made N frame in 44 Special...

To me it is "waste of skin"... as a Klingon would say.

Why not make them all 44 Mag.

Oh for sure, shoot light 44 Special type loads most of the time, but then you have the option of going to the 44 Mag when/if you need it.

My Mountain Gun has the same slim barrel as a 44 Special, and handles just as good.

If I knew I would only ever need "44 Special" power then I would get a S&W in 45 ACP. I would then have the advantage of Full Moon Clips or the ability to use Auto Rim brass...


Don't even ask me about my thoughts on the 41 Mag. [And I did have and carry a Mod 58 as a work gun... If it had been a "M&P in 44 Mag I would still have it.

Cuz they didnt make a triple lock in 44 mag !

a blue pre lock mtn gun in 44 mag... anybody know of one or should i just have one made ?

But, as feralmeril says, you do have a valid point.. but cmon man, appreciate the collection for collecting's sake. That being said, i do not own any NIB guns. i dont abuse them and some can go years before working themselves back in the range rotation, but i dont own any i cant/wont shoot.

 

[Dave T]

My small collection of 3 covers 69 years of S&W making 44 Specials.

First is a 1983, Model 24-3 with a 5" barrel.

Next is a restored 1954, 4th Model Hand Ejector with a 4" Barrel.

And finally, the one that started it all, a 1914 lettered but re-blued 1st Model Hand Ejector with a 5" barrel...also known as the New Century or more commonly the Triple Lock.

The Special 44 does everything I need a DA revolver to do. Don't see myself buying a 29 or 629, but don't mind if others want to. I do see myself buying a few more 44 Specials. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

 

[Texas1941]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered...

I just do not see the need for a new made N frame in 44 Special...

To me it is "waste of skin"... as a Klingon would say.

Why not make them all 44 Mag.

Oh for sure, shoot light 44 Special type loads most of the time, but then you have the option of going to the 44 Mag when/if you need it.

My Mountain Gun has the same slim barrel as a 44 Special, and handles just as good.

If I knew I would only ever need "44 Special" power then I would get a S&W in 45 ACP. I would then have the advantage of Full Moon Clips or the ability to use Auto Rim brass...


Don't even ask me about my thoughts on the 41 Mag. [And I did have and carry a Mod 58 as a work gun... If it had been a "M&P in 44 Mag I would still have it.

This is an old argument. The first time I remember hearing it I was fifteen or so ('64, '65?) and it was started by an article in one of the gun rags about Elmer Keith dropping the 44spl like a live grenade as soon as he got his hands on a 44mag.

The arguments for the mag ran pretty much like this:
1) The mag can do any thing the spl can do, plus a whole lot more on the top end.
2) The mag is just as accurate as the spl.
3) The weight difference between the two isn't that much, and with anything but the lightest loads, heavier is better.
4) They are both reloaders cartridges, so you might as well reload the most versatile case. That was certainly true in 1964, perhaps a little less so now.

The arguments for the Special ran:
1) Specials tend to be lighter guns and that counts if it is to be used anywhere but the square range.
2) Specials can be loaded up to the point that they will do almost anything the Magnum can do.
3) The 44 Special is inherently (magically?) accurate.
4) Special cases fired in Magnum chambers are inaccurate.
5) They are both reloaders cartridges, and most people will load their Magnums down to Special level.

I've messed with all these questions to some extent or another and FOR ME, it seems to sort out like this:

The Mountain guns and the special alloy guns make the weight issue a wash. In either caliber you can go as light or as heavy as you wish.

As far as accuracy goes, in a machine rest, the gun to gun variation is going to be greater than any difference made by the small difference in case length. In terms of people doing the shooting instead of machines, I do a lot better with a 250gr swc @ 900 fps than a 240gr jhp at 1300 fps. I just shoot better if I'm not being beat up, and it is as easy to down load a magnum as it is up load a special.

Special cases seem to work well in magnum chambers, from what I can tell. Again gun to gun variation seems greater than any problems caused by the shorter case.

If there is anything "magical" about the 44 spl, then it applies to the 44 mag as well. They are almost identical cases, generally shooting the same bullets, sometimes at different velocities.

If you wish to use a wide range of bullet types and weights, the 44 mag case gives you more options, at least on the heavy end.

All in all, I think Elmer was right when he dropped the 44 Special and never looked back.

One problem, though. I don't have any 44 mag revolvers. I've shot a lot of them, but none were mine. I don't want any 44 mags. I love my Specials because I think they are cool and that's what counts!

 

[feralmerril]

Okay, here I go again. I wish I would have kept some of my statements through the years for referance.
1. You dont need a full power mag for self defense.
2. Untill the mountain gun, all mags were heavier than specials due to the straight heavy barrel and longer clyinders.
3. Unless you are shooting a chargeing bull or grizz the special will kill as well as the mag. So will a .45 colt.
4. If you are carrying a powerfull mag load IN a mountain gun, you have a kicker you dont need, as a special will do the job.
5. I will admit to nostolgia here. All the specials were sweet with their older better workmanship and all were noticably eaiser to pack and handle than the mag due to the lighter weight.
6. As for Elmer. Yes, he left the special after getting the mag made. It was pretty much attributed to him. If I took the honor and credit of the mag comeing out, I belive I also would be packing one and put up with the extra weight.
7. For a belt gun in the boonies I carry one of my specials. If I go with the idea of shooting a deer, I do and have, carry my model 29. Thats because I might want to reach waaay out. I doubt I would be defending myself in a gunfight that far out.
8. Now, I admit to carrying a .357 mag more, the ones I carry are even a little lighter.
9. Now, I also admit to carrying a J frame .38 even more than the .357s as they are lighter than the rest, and I will buy into the real odds that it in the highly unlikely situation that I have to defend myself, well, I think I still stand a chance.
10. If I am going to move to iraq, or someone calls me out for real, and gives me time to go get a gun, I forget all the above, and go get my worked over 1911 remington-rand .45! (That is, if I am dumb enough to return!)

 

[bubbajoe45]

With all this crazy mania, we must keep in mind that the 'Maggie' evolved from the Special. Just as the .357 came from the .38 - did the .38 just go away? No, it's more popular than ever. They each have their role.

 

[NE450No2]

Gentlemen, First let me thank you all for not heating up the tar and plucking the chickens...

As far as collectors and Colt SAA shooters, I do understand your 44 Special Mania. [I have always wanted "some" Colt 44 Special SAA's]...

My dad had a 44 Special Triple Lock, it was sweet...

And I am suprised that many, if not most, of "you 44 Special freeks", saw my reasoning on new N Frame guns being made in 44 Mag, as they can be used with 44 Special power reloads....

SO I guess in "reality" ALL of us "44 kind of guys", are cut from the same "cloth".

It is just that some of us are a little more "Retro" and some of us are a little more "Modern"....

But we ARE ALL 44 FREEKS...

 

[Joe Kent]

What it boils down too, is we love to discuss the various merits of our favorites among friends but the fact is most of us just like them all and while my "favorite" is the special I have just as many mags. as well as even more 357's and 45's.

 

[BKDinTexas]

I should be picking up a new Lipseys .44 Special Blackhawk Flattop Bisley today! My dealer is holding it for me. Will post pics tonight hopefully. Mine is 5-1/2 inch, but he is supposed to get me a 4-5/8 inch to go with it, as they are making both barrel lengths, just like the first run. I passed on the first ones, as the Bisley grip fits my hand so much better than the standard Blackhawk. They also come with prettier rosewood grips. Can't wait to run some Keith loads through it this weekend.

 

[keith44spl]

44 FREEKS?

Gentlemen, And I am suprised that many, if not most, of "you 44 Special freeks", saw my reasoning on new N Frame guns being made in 44 Mag, as they can be used with 44 Special power reloads....But we ARE ALL 44 FREEKS...

Son, I don't believe I've ever heard that term used anywhere, but in a carnival sideshow!

This is just one of the reasons I favor the Special...

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/92205-44-spl-scapegoat-mtn-bull.html

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[Joe Kent]

Dave, every time I read that great account, I feel that I have been born way too late. Joe.

 

[ladder13]

I picked up this 24-3 about a month ago from a Forum member, for a fantastic price. I really like the "tapered" barrel look, wish they still made em' this way. Besides a turn ring the gun is flawless.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I own a lot of .44 caliber handguns. I like them all. I love the 29's since they were the original magnums, but I have a soft spot for the Special. It is a piece of history that pre-dates the maggie by a good number of years, and if it had been loaded to it's full potential when it was introduced, and upgraded at the same rate as powders were, we would never even of had the .44 magnum. That is the biggest reason it is so special to me.

Here is my 24-3-

Here is my triple lock that shipped in October 1913. I am waiting on the letter as I type this. I shot this gun the other day, and though the bore is a bit rough, it is a very good shooter, and with a bit of load development, I have no doubt it'll shoot as good as most of my other guns.

 

[Dale53]

I am not going to get into the "discussion" about the merits of the .44 Special. You either "get it" or you don't. For those that don't, you have my condolences. I have been shooting, casting bullets, and reloading for the .44 Special for many, many years. I also have and enjoy .44 Magnums and .45 Colts as well as the diminutive .32 S&W L/.32 H&R and .38 Special. The .45 ACP in both pistol and revolver is a top favorite, also. Here are a couple of my favorites:

The S&W 624 that came about because of Skeeter Skelton:

This 6½" S&W Model 624 was purchased at the same time as the 4":

I shoot these revolvers and calibers very well, thank you. This is the Skeeter load at 25 yards, standing:

Then, there are those that I own "Just Cause". The Cimarron Colt Clone in .44 Special, one of the prettiest revolvers I have:

Here is my most recent .44 Special, the Ruger .44 Lipsey Special, arguably one of the most practical field pistols extant:

Here is the .44 Lipsey Special in Red Dog Leather:

The Lipsey Special shoots pretty well, also. Here it is standing at 25 yards:

The .44 Special produces a serious amount of useful power and in the Skeeter load is optimal as either a self defense cartridge or an excellent field cartridge. It shoots well at target velocities with a 200 gr full wadcutter as it does with a 250 gr Keith at 950 fps (Skeeter load) or 1200 fps (Keith load). The Keith load will shoot through a deer end for end at a 100 yards. That makes it a dandy deer, hog, and black bear load in the hands of a competent shooter. It is just flat out an excellent performer. I enjoy mine to the fullest. As far as I am concerned it's name says it all "Special".

YMMV
Dale53