.45 ACP bullet-expansion test results

[Weimar]

//
I took a bunch of pics last week, but my smartfone is smarter than I am, and I don't know how to get the pics onto my computer. All others I've used simply appear as a USB storage device, but this one doesn't, even tho W7 installed a driver for it...

choose email option and email them to yourself - that is what I do, easiest for me and I work with computers

just be aware that you may use up a lot of data, unless you are using your wifi at home or work

and the Federal's, I just picked up some hydroshock, had thought they were pretty good, better check them out and see what I have - but most been buying critical defense

 

[SmithMarine]

The Hornady round appears to be a consistent performer. However as a reloader I have to consider that neither the Hydroshock or FTX bullet are available as a component. This leaves me with Gold Dots or XTP. I shoot a lot and little boxes of $1.00+/round ammo don't get it. Nice tests though.

 

[Swengen]

Thanks for posting your information! Makes me happy I carry with Gold Dot. And, I have some Critical Defense on hand as well.

 

[jeffreybehr]

If there's any way you could include the Federal Premium HST it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I'd love to test it, and the one way to get that done is for you to ship me about 10 rounds. That way you'll spend about $20 for cartridges and shipping and I'll spend my time and $10 - $15 on waterjugs. I'll chronograf it and test expansion in unclothed and then clothed waterjugs, post the results, and thank you sincerely for your contribution. .45ACP only, pls. E-mail me, with something like Testing .45 ACP cartridges in the subject line, at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net if you're interested.

 

[jeffreybehr]

The Hornady round appears to be a consistent performer. However as a reloader I have to consider that neither the Hydroshock or FTX bullet are available as a component. This leaves me with Gold Dots or XTP. I shoot a lot and little boxes of $1.00+/round ammo don't get it. Nice tests though.

Smith, first and most importantly, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for serving our country.

I agree heartily that the $1-per-cartridge prices are tough to pay. I reloaded PD loads for my 357SIGs initially, but then I decided that, worst case, having to defend my reloads used in a self-defense shooting is one more thing I don't NEED, so I now carry only factory rounds. Excellent ones can be had for less then 70 cents if you shop carefully.

I've used lots of XTPs in my .45GAP pistols years ago and in my 357SIG pistols more recently and believe they're excellent PD bullets. More recently I used Barnes all-copper TAC/XPs, but those cost about as much as factory PD cartridges, so I quit them too.

 

[jeffreybehr]

MORE results, this time including 357SIG bullets

I guess I just couldn't resist spending another $40 on waterjugs.

I think I've mentioned previously that I was considering changing my heavy-clothing simulator to something more approaching an insulated jacket, so I'm now using a pack of a front layer of denim, 2 layers of terrytoweling, and a back layer of denim. This about-5-by-7-by-maybe-3/8"-thick pad is taped, top and bottom only, to the front of the 1st waterjug.

Unfortunately, today I forgot to bring the Hornady Critical Defense FTX load, but I got 6 others.



On the left is our old friend, the Federal Hydra-Shok 185. It performed very nicely this time. Next is a trio of Speer GoldDots, and my respect for this bullet increases every time I test it. The 2 lower samples entered the 4th of the 6"-deep waterjugs but didn't crack the rear wall. The upper sample I thought I had lost, as it exited the right-hand edge of the 4th jug and apparently hit the rocky backstop. Later I found it to the left of my testing area, somewhat 'bruised' on its front from bouncing among the rocks, apparently.

The two 125g. 357SIG bullets on the right are (top) the GoldDot (the higher-velocity load #54234/24234) and (bottom) the Remington Golden Saber Bonded. This is my 1st thick-clothing result with the GSB, and I'm impressed.

Overall, six excellent results, IMO. Next time I'll remember the FTX!*

And not to further inflame the never-ending caliber wars, but somehow I feel safer carrying those big .45-caliber bullets rather than the smaller 9mm 125s, no matter how much faster the latter are traveling--and that's about 400FPS, FWIW.


*...because the box is already in my shooting bag, not because I have a good memory.

 

[GJH77]

jeffreybehr,
Excellent information. Looks like lots of fun also.
I wondered if anyone would ask this question, so I will.
Could the occasional no expansion of a round happen for any specific bullet brand over time and enough shots?
Seeing the second HydraShok did expand, could the first HydraShok that did not expand be similar to the Gold Dot that did not expand? For whatever reason, bad bullet, the angle that it entered the cloth, or something else I can't think of?
It appears to be a good reason most advise not to stop shooting until the threat is stopped. Thanks again for the info.

 

[jeffreybehr]

jeffreybehr,
Excellent information. Looks like lots of fun also.
I wondered if anyone would ask this question, so I will.
Could the occasional no expansion of a round happen for any specific bullet brand over time and enough shots?
Seeing the second HydraShok did expand, could the first HydraShok that did not expand be similar to the Gold Dot that did not expand? For whatever reason, bad bullet, the angle that it entered the cloth, or something else I can't think of?
It appears to be a good reason most advise not to stop shooting until the threat is stopped. Thanks again for the info.

TY, and THANK you very much for serving our country.

I have no good idea, that is, based on research, why the 2 bullets that didn't expand behaved that way. I wouldn't think that the absence of 2 layers of thin denim would cause such large differences in performance. Unfortunately, it'd take another 40 or 50 waterjugs to create a statistically reliable set of tests of that, and I just don't have that in me, but maybe I can shoot a couple GDs into 4- versus 6-layer pads.

"It appears to be a good reason most advise not to stop shooting until the threat is stopped." Indeed! I've heard that stated as 'Shoot until the badguy thinks he's dead'.

 

[GJH77]

Unfortunately, it'd take another 40 or 50 waterjugs to create a statistically reliable set of tests of that, and I just don't have that in me, but maybe I can shoot a couple GDs into 4- versus 6-layer pads.

But you have done a whole lot better than many could. Great stuff. Thanks again.

 

[forrestinmathews]

What do you mean you don't have it in you? After all this shooting and publication of data I was firmly convinced you were superman or at least a really nice guy... Thanks for the data. As soo as I get enough water jugs accumulated I will be conducting my own tests and publishing them in a blog article.

I'll be looking at the following:
.45:
200gr. +P Gold Dot
185gr. +P Golden Saber
10mm:
180gr. Nosler JHP by Double Tap
200gr. Hornady XTP
.40:
180gr. HST
180gr. Gold Dot
9mm:
135gr. Hydrashok
124gr. Hydrashok (if I have some left)
124gr. +P HST
.357 Mag:
100gr. Corbon Powerball
125gr. XTP with nearly max load of win 296
125gr. Hydrashok (if I have some left)

 

[rwsmith]

Thanks for sharing.....

That's a first class test and presentation. I'm leery of the Hydra Shocks from other reading. All I can say about those expanded rounds is 'OUCH'.

 

[jeffreybehr]

What do you mean you don't have it in you? After all this shooting and publication of data I was firmly convinced you were superman or at least a really nice guy... Thanks for the data. As soo as I get enough water jugs accumulated I will be conducting my own tests and publishing them in a blog article.

I'll be looking at the following:
.45:
200gr. +P Gold Dot
185gr. +P Golden Saber
10mm:
180gr. Nosler JHP by Double Tap
200gr. Hornady XTP
.40:
180gr. HST
180gr. Gold Dot
9mm:
135gr. Hydrashok
124gr. Hydrashok (if I have some left)
124gr. +P HST
.357 Mag:
100gr. Corbon Powerball
125gr. XTP with nearly max load of win 296
125gr. Hydrashok (if I have some left)

TYVM. I'm certainly not a superman, just a slightly chubby, very happy, almost-70-year-old retiree who loves to shoot pistols and do this unusual stuff including reloading.

When I bought my M&P .45c a month ago, I decided I would reload PD rounds for it and bought 3 boxes of my favorite PD bullet, the Barnes all-copper TAC/XP. I had used the 160s in the .45GAP Glocks...



...I had years ago, so bought them. Those bullets, at almost 90 cents each, delivered, turned out to be more expensive than premium-quality PD ammo, so I returned 2 boxes. But I still have one box of 40, and maybe I'll put together a few loads to test. I hope to get these 160s to around 1100FPS; we'll see.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I'd try bluedot personally. That's some loud stuff. I wish 296 could be used in .45 that's some flashy and loud stuff.

 

[jeffreybehr]

I'd try bluedot personally.

No Blue Dot for me; too much muzzleflash. HS-6 is as good as powder gets, muzzleflash-wise.
Zenfolio | Jeffrey Behr

 

[SmithMarine]

If 230 GD is tested, I would be interested in the difference in expansion between the regular and short barrel bullets. They are actually different bullets, not just loaded different.

 

[vegasgunhand]

As a law enforcement firearms instructor for over thirty years, I too have conducted simular testing over the years. The results have been interesting to say the least.

At the end of the day, I have relied on the most accurate test medium that can be found. Thats the results of different bullets that have been recovered from actual shooting victims. Forensic pathologists get to see exactly how a bullet will perform in it's intended medium, a bad guy.

One thing that has been constant with every shooting I have ever been personally involved in or reviewed, that is bullet placement if everything, especially with a handgun. If you don't put your shot in a vital area, no amount of expansion or bullet performance can make up for a poorly placed shot.

A good source of pistol bullet performance would be to look at what larger law enforcement agencies are issuing to their officers. Most of the larger agencies have had the resources to conduct some fairly large scale testing of different bullets.

 

[walkin' trails]

Your testing results are interesting. The Hydra Shok is an old design, but apparently there is enough of a following for Federal to continue to market them. I fired a 230 grain into a cheap "no-name" ballistic vest a while back. It expanded out to about 5/8th of an inch. The jacket remained intact. It did not penetrate any layers. I then fired a Winchester Ranger 180 bonded HP .40 into the same vest panel, different location. It mushroomed larger and actually punched thru a layer or two of Kevlar. When I get the time, I plan to try a few more just for kicks and grins. I have no idea what level was, and the labels were gone.

Have you ever tried Remington Golden Saber 230s? I'm curious how they perform.

I'm also curious how they these rounds would perform if the "heavy winter clothing" was actually a down-filled jacket and a shirt or two underneath rather than denim, or another clothing medium commonly worn by criminal elements when they feel the need to don a jacket or coat.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I'm also curious how they these rounds would perform if the "heavy winter clothing" was actually a down-filled jacket and a shirt or two underneath rather than denim, or another clothing medium commonly worn by criminal elements when they feel the need to don a jacket or coat.

Have you heard the phrase, "Like $#!+ through a goose"? I just couldn't resist the pun...but the point is valid. With the advent of so many light weight high volume warmth items like fleeces and synthetic down is the denim test becoming out dated? I haven't seen too many folks sporting it lately, but the Carhartt-type cotton duck work jackets are relatively inexpensive at your local do all convenience/department store. I think it's likely still valid to test shooting bullets through some dense fabric. I'd tailor my bullets to the toughest skinned animal in the land I'm walking be that fur, fabric, or armor.

 

[jeffreybehr]

I finally have a clear winner

Got some loads put together with the Barnes TAC-XP 160s and tested a few more samples of the FTXs and Gold Dots.

The three on the left are all 160g. TAC-XPs traveling at about 1000FPS. (The loads are still being developed.) Since I've shot lots of these into bare waterjugs a few years ago, I started this batch with denim/2 towels/denim on the 1st jug. That LH bullet entered jug #3 but did not crack the rear wall. I then felt a stiffer challenge was in order, so the next 2 were shot thru denim/4 towels/denim. Again, each entered jug #3 and did not crack its rear wall. Each weighed (all weights rounded to the nearest whole grain) 160 grains. So far, this bullet seems impervious to having its hollow cavity filed with cloth it's going thru. IMO this is the best performance I've yet seen.


Next are Hornady FTXs. The lower is the 1st I've shot thru denim/2 towels/denim. It too entered jug #3 and did not crack its rear wall. It performed as well as that shot thru 8 layers of denim (not pictured here but shown in a post above) but weighed only 173 grains. Again, excellent performance. So next was a 4-layers-of-towel pad (specifically denim/4 towels/denim). Apparently I've finally come up with a challenge the FTX didn't master. Obviously the cloth did not fill its 'hollow'-point cavity, and I have no idea why it didn't expand much, but expand slightly it did (while still weighing 186 grains). 'Expand slightly' is NOT what I can say for the next candidate, the Gold Dot fired thru denim/4 towels/denim, which is our last bullet (which weighed 185 grains). The Gold Dot has a proven history of excellent performance in personal-defense use, but thick clothing seems to inhibit its expansion.

Tomorrow I'll chrono more TAC/XPs.

Here are some pics of the work in process. The pad being assembled onto a jug.


The final pad on the jug.


Here's the line of jugs from just above the shooting position. All jugs after the first are offset slightly to place each's center of mass down the center of board.


Here's a mess of jugs I assembled for my last shot after having only a few 1-gallon jugs left.


I got lucky today, getting 3 expanded bullets from my 1st-3 shots while puncturing only 9 jugs.

 

[chief38]

I have been reading all the test data here and have been enjoying the post. Remember even though bullet expansion will usually enhance performance it is not as important as functionality in a pistol. If I recall, the standard 230 grain JRN 45 acp Ball ammo has racked up about 65% one shot stops and functions pretty darned reliably in just about any Auto Loader.

I am NOT saying the new technologically advanced rounds are not better, all I am saying is if I were to carry them I would test them very thoroughly through the actual gun to be carried before employing them for SD work.

Since my EDC is a M60-7 I RARELY carry a 1911, but the once or twice a year I do carry my Colt 1911 (once in a blue moon when going to the Range) I load it up with standard Ball ammo 'cause I know it works flawlessly. Since I RARELY use a 1911 for SD I have never bought or tried HP ammo.

Your post is food for thought though.