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Input please re making 45 acp ammo, for model 625, that produces 950-1000 fps using 230 gr round nose. Should I use +p cases?
Thanks
Thanks
45 acp heavier loads
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I'm new, forgive me for posting this elsewhere. I'm in need of input re making 45 acp ammo, for model 625, that produces 950-1000 fps using 230 gr round nose. Should I use +p cases?
Thanks
Thanks
IMHO the only difference between Plus P and regular cases is the marking.
gwpercle
Member
The hottest loads I can find are in the Speer #8 Reloading Manual .
230 gr. FMJ and even with a insane charge of Unique ( I'm not going to print it ) that MAX. load is only 909 fps !!!
I don't think you should try for 1000 fps in a 45 acp .
I just checked a few of my loading manuals and with a 230 gr. bullet it looks like 900 fps is the max. velocity .
I have no +P data and don't want to go there .
The insane charge of Unique , as listed in Speer #8 Manual ... Don't do it,
I did try that powder charge with 185 gr. Sierra JHP back in the 1970's and after a few shots determined it was too hot ... beat up the pistol and shooter .
Gary
230 gr. FMJ and even with a insane charge of Unique ( I'm not going to print it ) that MAX. load is only 909 fps !!!
I don't think you should try for 1000 fps in a 45 acp .
I just checked a few of my loading manuals and with a 230 gr. bullet it looks like 900 fps is the max. velocity .
I have no +P data and don't want to go there .
The insane charge of Unique , as listed in Speer #8 Manual ... Don't do it,
I did try that powder charge with 185 gr. Sierra JHP back in the 1970's and after a few shots determined it was too hot ... beat up the pistol and shooter .
Gary
I loaded some 45 ACP up to 5 grains of tightgroup using Hornady 230 gr XTP's. These are used in my governor, and are .2 grains above the max as listed on the Hodgen web site. I don't have a chrono but this load seemed to straiten out the bullet with a little less drop out to 25 yds and I get a lot less keyholing on paper. The recoil is still very light compared to 45LC and 410's.
Ramshot Enforcer pistol powder will get a 230gr bullet to the velocity you're lookin for without exceeding standard 45 acp pressure. With other powders you're most likely looking at +P pressures at that velocity.
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Ivan the Butcher
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Welcome to the best Gun Forum there is! I hope you like it here.
The best I could find with a relatively available powder is with Accurate No.5. The listed max charge is 8.7 grains for 927 fps @ 19,300 psi. This is in standard pressure range, but I wouldn't use it in any 1917 variant! But will be fine in a 625. The test gun was a 1911, so I'm thinking a 625 will be slower! The bullet listed was Sierra 230fmj. Data from: "Accurate Smokeless Powder Loading Guide" from 1994.
One of the older VV loading pamphlets got into the 935 fps range with Hornady 230 FMJ
This data is for FMJ bullets only, if you use some sort of hollow point, The pressure will be higher!
Ivan
The best I could find with a relatively available powder is with Accurate No.5. The listed max charge is 8.7 grains for 927 fps @ 19,300 psi. This is in standard pressure range, but I wouldn't use it in any 1917 variant! But will be fine in a 625. The test gun was a 1911, so I'm thinking a 625 will be slower! The bullet listed was Sierra 230fmj. Data from: "Accurate Smokeless Powder Loading Guide" from 1994.
One of the older VV loading pamphlets got into the 935 fps range with Hornady 230 FMJ
This data is for FMJ bullets only, if you use some sort of hollow point, The pressure will be higher!
Ivan
I will refrain from printing the charge of Unique I used to load under the Sierra 185 gr. JHC back in the 70s. I am quite sure it was way out of spec, but fortunately I never damaged a gun with it. Slot older and a bit wiser, more cautious, and over that early case of magnumitis I had when I first started loading. About the same time, I learned that Winchester 748 and 748 BR data were not interchangeable, the earlier BR version being slower burning. I upper mid level charge of the new 748 using the older BR data locked a Belgium Browning BLR up tight at the first firing. Again, fortunAtely, no damage done and a valuable lesson learned.
irapollock
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Hi Welcome to the forum.
A couple of comments:
If you use cast bullets instead of jacketed you can expect a significant increase in muzzle velocity for the same load. So you might want to get
some cast bullets.
According to the Starline brass website, 45ACP +P cases have a thicker web so they have less volume than standard 45 ACP brass even though the external dimensions are the same => higher pressures / velocity for the same load compared to standard cases.
The Alliant powder catalog on-line has a couple of loads using BE-86 that
sound like what you are looking for.
Might also search for bowling-pin loads.
Whatever you do work up slowly and be-safe
A couple of comments:
If you use cast bullets instead of jacketed you can expect a significant increase in muzzle velocity for the same load. So you might want to get
some cast bullets.
According to the Starline brass website, 45ACP +P cases have a thicker web so they have less volume than standard 45 ACP brass even though the external dimensions are the same => higher pressures / velocity for the same load compared to standard cases.
The Alliant powder catalog on-line has a couple of loads using BE-86 that
sound like what you are looking for.
Might also search for bowling-pin loads.
Whatever you do work up slowly and be-safe
I am told that the only difference between a .45 case that is marked +P is the stamp on the case. At any rate I have loaded non +P cases to +P pressure without any noticeable difference. Blue dot is what I use with 200 and 230 gr pills. Very impressive powder in my experience for the .45 A.C.P.
Beemer-mark
Member
45 Auto +P Brass - Large Pistol - Brass Cases
+p is not same. However worse case in a revolver is the case splits, which is not a big deal.
+p is not same. However worse case in a revolver is the case splits, which is not a big deal.
3rdgeargrndrr
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Dedicated +P cases should be slightly thicker at the web.
I wouldnt bother trying to source those.
Barrel length 5" or more would help you greatly with this endeavor.
I wouldnt bother trying to source those.
Barrel length 5" or more would help you greatly with this endeavor.
You might want to use the 45 SUPER cases. These have a much thicker web area than traditional 45 brass.
Some brands of +P marked 45 ACP brass are stronger, most are not
Loading to the full potential of the 45 SUPER brass, that 230 grain FMJ can be safely pushed out of your 625 revolver in excess of 1100 FPS
I have run tens of thousands of 45 SUPER 200 grain hand loads (just over 1200 FPS) through my 625 pin gun over the last several decades with no unforeseen consequences
Some brands of +P marked 45 ACP brass are stronger, most are not
Loading to the full potential of the 45 SUPER brass, that 230 grain FMJ can be safely pushed out of your 625 revolver in excess of 1100 FPS
I have run tens of thousands of 45 SUPER 200 grain hand loads (just over 1200 FPS) through my 625 pin gun over the last several decades with no unforeseen consequences
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Sierra has pages of heavy .45 ACP revolver loads.
People are all afraid to give you exact data. Your gun is safe with .45 Super loads. There is data online for heavy revolver loads and if you don't need over a coupla hundred you may order them from Buffalo Bore. Their +P Auto Rim is also an option. Google the load you are looking for and you will find the info on-line. Stay safe and be well......
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I truly see no need to go over 900 fps with Ball ammo in 45acp. It will not expand regardless of velocity and at 230 grains it packs more than enough penetration.
BTW, just so you know, Factory American Eagle 230 grain Ball .45acp ammo is listed as 890 fps on their box while other 45 Ball ammo from others are 850, 840, 835. This stuff is a stout load out of a 1911 and even for a Revolver it would be a pretty good load to replicate. Personally I'd stay at 900 fps max - but that's just me.
BTW, just so you know, Factory American Eagle 230 grain Ball .45acp ammo is listed as 890 fps on their box while other 45 Ball ammo from others are 850, 840, 835. This stuff is a stout load out of a 1911 and even for a Revolver it would be a pretty good load to replicate. Personally I'd stay at 900 fps max - but that's just me.
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Starline's 45 Auto Rim cases (do not have a +P head stamp) are as strong as their 45 Colt cases which are ever bit as strong as their 44 Magnum cases & can easily handle 45 Super loads.
S-L 45 ACP & 45 AR case have virtually the same capacity/volume, 27.3 -vs- 27.4gr/H²O, respectively.
S-L 45 Super (empty) brass is heavier than their 45 ACP brass (87.4gr -vs- 79.1gr) & holds 1.8% less at 26.8gr/H²O.
The thicker web of the 45 Super brass is mainly for unsupported auto pistol chambers.
I've never had any S-L 45 ACP (+P) brass to examine & therefore have no data on them.
.
S-L 45 ACP & 45 AR case have virtually the same capacity/volume, 27.3 -vs- 27.4gr/H²O, respectively.
S-L 45 Super (empty) brass is heavier than their 45 ACP brass (87.4gr -vs- 79.1gr) & holds 1.8% less at 26.8gr/H²O.
The thicker web of the 45 Super brass is mainly for unsupported auto pistol chambers.
I've never had any S-L 45 ACP (+P) brass to examine & therefore have no data on them.
.
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I always looked at Sierra.....
...as primarily hunting loads, intended for guns that can take the extra heat.
I don't know any books today that specify over 6 grains of Unique for a 125 grain jhp in .38 special. But the 1970s Sierra book states a full grain more. I started working up loads in my model 10 but stopped way before 7 grains because they were getting really raucous.
...as primarily hunting loads, intended for guns that can take the extra heat.
I don't know any books today that specify over 6 grains of Unique for a 125 grain jhp in .38 special. But the 1970s Sierra book states a full grain more. I started working up loads in my model 10 but stopped way before 7 grains because they were getting really raucous.
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Long time 1911 guy here, shot one as a kid, then after RVN AMTU at Ft. Bragg. Started reloading in mid-late 70's. My pet 200 grn JHP is 6.5 grns Unique, works well in full size 1911's. General " plinking" is the RCBS 201grn Keith with 5 grains of Unique. This load shoots very well in 25-2 too. I used old Unique for years and have just opened a new can so may reduce the load on 25 and see how they are. Have 185 grn JHP load but can not find a box to post load thanks to a move. Did I say moving is a bite?
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