45 acp heavier loads

[Murdock]

Warning if you shoot max loads from the revolver then switch to a 1911 you may need a stronger recoil spring in the 1911. I shot many hotter loads in my 1911 and both sights came loose. It hammered itself.

There is more needed to manage 45 Super in a 1911.

1. A new firing pin spring to resist the increased thrust of the slide upon return to battery,

2. A square-bottom firing pin retainer and a stronger mainspring to absorb slide recoil,

3. And the stronger recoil spring mentioned.

 

[ddixie884]

The OP asked about some .45acp loads for 230gr at 1,000fps for use in a 625 revolver. He can fire .45Super in a stock 625. Meanwhile I'm not sure he needs input for .45Super and .460Rowland in auto pistols. I don't think the 625 has a recoil spring but I could be wrong.

 

[biku324]

I've seen 8.5 gains Power Pistol under Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP 230 grain bullets for 1,011 to 1,032 fps in Handloader magazine some years ago. However, the manufacturer of PP lists 8.1 grains with a 230 Speer for 985 fps.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

1- Input please re making 45 acp ammo, for model 625, that produces 950-1000 fps using 230 gr. round nose.

2- Should I use +p cases?

3- My 625 is one of my favorites and I have no interest in damaging it for the sake of a little fun.

1- 230gr round nose: lead or jacketed?

2- Not necessary

3- Loads in the range you mentioned will not hurt your 625 if it's already in good repair.

.

I've seen 8.5 gains Power Pistol under Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP 230 grain bullets for 1,011 to 1,032 fps in Handloader magazine some years ago.

Good recollection.

In Handloader #310 Brian Pearce listed P-P@ 8.2gr with 230gr jacketed bullets at 992 & 1005 fps from a 5" 1911 & they are standard pressure loads in 45ACP brass.

In Handloader #306 Brian Pearce listed P-P@ 8.5gr with 230gr jacketed bullets at 1018 & 1032 fps from a 6-1/2" M1955 Target & they are (+P) pressure loads in 45 Auto Rim brass.

A lead 230gr bullet can reach roughly those later velocities with just 7.7gr/P-P.

.

These should meet your criteria provided you have the components.

.

 

[ddixie884]

That is some info the OP can use. Good Job........

 

[garbler]

Years ago I worked with some heavy hot loads in a first issue 625. I won't share any data as I personally feel that is a very irresponsible practice telling fellow shooters how to jump the safety fence. Anyway I/we always used auto rim brass as it's heavier where necessary and loaded LBT hard cast bullets. 1000 fps was doable but 900 fps is easier and ballistically will do the same. Surprised nobody has mentioned Auto Rim brass or maybe I missed it.

 

[rockquarry]

Years ago I worked with some heavy hot loads in a first issue 625. I won't share any data as I personally feel that is a very irresponsible practice telling fellow shooters how to jump the safety fence. Anyway I/we always used auto rim brass as it's heavier where necessary and loaded LBT hard cast bullets. 1000 fps was doable but 900 fps is easier and ballistically will do the same. Surprised nobody has mentioned Auto Rim brass or maybe I missed it.

I much prefer Auto Rim brass for all revolver use, but it's internal capacity and that of .45 ACP should be close enough that loads are interchangeable. I doubt one is any stronger than the other. Perhaps Auto Rim brass is heavier than ACP brass because of the thickness of the rim.

 

[BillBro]

IMHO the only difference between Plus P and regular cases is the marking.

This is what Starline told me, there is no difference in THEIRS except for the marking.
There was a seller on GB about a year ago, just when this madness hit who had 10K new Starline +P marked 45ACP cases for sale for $10 per 100, I bought 2,000 of them. But no, no difference. I use them for 185, 200 and 230gr rounds, hot and not, work just the same.

 

[Squib_Load]

Heavier 45 ACP loads in revolvers are ok

45 ACP revolvers support the case better and do not cycle an action. But 45 ACP bullets are made for 45 ACP velocities. If you use .451/.452 that are meant for 45 Colt loads you'll find different weights, and HPs that are constructed for higher impact velocities.

In my 45 ACP autos and revolvers, and in my 45 Colt revolvers and Rossi lever action I use the same 225 gn copper-plated flat nose or 230 gn FMJ. Depending on the gun, they're loaded at 775 fps to 1750 fps. They hit the metal silhouette from 15 yards to 200 yards with authority.

 

[biku324]

The Keith-style Lyman 452423 is the cat's meow for cast bullets at 238-243 grains. It's been out of production quite a while, but was designed for the Auto Rim. I've loaded these in ACP cases with the front driving band flush with case mouth - they fed perfectly in my 1911s and were more accurate than RN jacketed or lead at any speed.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

IMHO the only difference between Plus P and regular cases is the marking.

This is what Starline told me, there is no difference in THEIRS except for the marking.

.

No idea why someone at Starline would tell you that when their website clearly says otherwise:

45 Auto +P Brass - Large Pistol - Brass Cases

#1520 - 45 Auto +P Brass (Large Pistol primer)
--------------------------------------------------------
The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions.
A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas.
This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

.

Okay, here's the numbers as I see them:

I just went thru my range find brass & came up with some S-L 45ACP (+P) that I was unaware of & measured a couple.

The (empty) S-L 45 ACP (+P) brass is (surprisingly) heavier, at 90.4gr, than either their 45 ACP or 45 Super brass & holds 26.4gr/H²O.

S-L 45 ACP & 45 AR case have virtually the same capacity/volume, 27.3 -vs- 27.4gr/H²O, respectively.

S-L 45 Super (empty) brass is heavier than their 45 ACP brass (87.4gr -vs- 79.1gr) & holds 1.8% less at 26.8gr/H²O.

.

I can only surmise that their 45 Super cases uses a different brass metallurgy that's stronger, but lighter, (they are the most expenses of all four) than what they use in the 45 ACP cases & that they use more of it in the (+P) cases which give them the extra strength & weight, but less capacity.

.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

But 45 ACP bullets are made for 45 ACP velocities.

Don't sell all 45 ACP bullets short.

Hornady lists the rated muzzle velocity range for their .451" 230gr XTP & HAP bullets at 600-1650 fps. Plenty fast enough for any 45ACP revolver/pistol loads.

I don't know what Zero rates their .451" 230gr JHPs at but I shoot them in my reduced 460 Mag loads with 26.0gr. of 2400.

.

 

[BillBro]

Well someone at Starline fibbed to me then. They said there was no difference between the regular and +p cases. I'm more inclined to believe folks here, believe it or not.

 

[ddixie884]

.



#1520 - 45 Auto +P Brass (Large Pistol primer)
--------------------------------------------------------
The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions.
A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas.
This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

.

Okay, here's the numbers as I see them:

I just went thru my range find brass & came up with some S-L 45ACP (+P) that I was unaware of & measured a couple.

The (empty) S-L 45 ACP (+P) brass is (surprisingly) heavier, at 90.4gr, than either their 45 ACP or 45 Super brass & holds 26.4gr/H²O.



.

I can only surmise that their 45 Super cases uses a different brass metallurgy that's stronger, but lighter, (they are the most expenses of all four) than what they use in the 45 ACP cases & that they use more of it in the (+P) cases which give them the extra strength & weight, but less capacity.

.

Great info. You often have very good info to share. THANX..........

 

[johngalt]

There are gunsmiths that rechamber the 625 to shoot 460 Rowland, which is 40,000 psi. From that, I suspect that it can handle .45 +P.

 

[BillBro]

.

No idea why someone at Starline would tell you that when their website clearly says otherwise:

45 Auto +P Brass - Large Pistol - Brass Cases

#1520 - 45 Auto +P Brass (Large Pistol primer)
--------------------------------------------------------
The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions.
A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas.
This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

.

Okay, here's the numbers as I see them:

I just went thru my range find brass & came up with some S-L 45ACP (+P) that I was unaware of & measured a couple.

The (empty) S-L 45 ACP (+P) brass is (surprisingly) heavier, at 90.4gr, than either their 45 ACP or 45 Super brass & holds 26.4gr/H²O.



.

I can only surmise that their 45 Super cases uses a different brass metallurgy that's stronger, but lighter, (they are the most expenses of all four) than what they use in the 45 ACP cases & that they use more of it in the (+P) cases which give them the extra strength & weight, but less capacity.

.

Maybe I called Starbucks?