45 acp load with 225 gr. TCFP

[H Richard]

I've recently obtained a 25-2 which is a ball to shoot, but looking for a load with this bullet (Missouri Bullet CO. 225 gr. Truncated cone Flat Point). Several of my 1911 loads, especially a 178 gr SWC over 5.0 gr WST, and 200 gr SWC over 4.3 gr 231 shoot well, but are a pain to load with with the moon clips. I really like the 225 TCFP, and feel it has good potential. So far I have tried 5.8 gr 231 and 4.5 gr HS6, but both are rather mediocre grouping. This bullet should make a great defense bullet as well as IDPA target bullet.

Any one else worked up loads using this bullet? Recommendations?

 

[1911A1]

The truncated cone should just fall in, as mine do in my 1917 with moon-clips.
Recently put together Win. primers, W231 and truncs using Hornady reloading it calls for 3-6.2 grains of powder. Starting on the light side - 3 grains of W231 looks like 1/2 teaspoon of sand in a big teacup. Thinking of adding 3-4 cc of cornmeal to keep the powder from laying down - possibly igniting backwards. What do you think?

 

[Mack]

The truncated cone should just fall in, as mine do in my 1917 with moon-clips.
Recently put together Win. primers, W231 and truncs using Hornady reloading it calls for 3-6.2 grains of powder. Starting on the light side - 3 grains of W231 looks like 1/2 teaspoon of sand in a big teacup. Thinking of adding 3-4 cc of cornmeal to keep the powder from laying down - possibly igniting backwards. What do you think?

I think you should add some powder. I find nothing attractive about super light loads in .45 ACP.

 

[Skip Sackett]

In the 45ACP with any weight bullet, I have never had problems getting good results with either Bullseye or AA#2.

With plated bullets in the 200-230gr range, 4.5-4.7gr of Bullseye works well, or 5-5.3gr of AA#2 to do the same thing.

Both meter like a dream through almost any powder measure and are consistent to a "tee".

The thing about the M25-M625 platform in 45ACP is that it also lends itself very well to those +P 45AR loads. I load them all in 45ACP brass and keep them segregated by bullet type. My 240gr LSWC, which is a very blunt, wide meplat bullet, when loaded in 45ACP cases is only to be fired in my M625. All of the other types of bullets I cast or load will work in both firearms.

My son just started casting and he has a Lee 230gr TC mould. I have yet to hear a range report about it though. He has been extremely busy of late so.........Maybe this summer I can give you a bit more details.

 

[H Richard]

I agree, 3 gr 231 is way too light. I have already loaded 5.8 gr 231, 7.5 gr HS6, and yesterday 4.5 gr Titegroup. The Tightgroup gave the best groups, so now I will try bumping up and down from that about 2/10ths each way. Probably 4.3, then 4.7 & 4.9 and see how that works. I may also try the AA#5 also.

In one manual I was looking at which listed bot 45 acp and 45 AR, they listed slight differences in the same loads, with the AR loads being up or down as much as 2/10ths from the acp load. Anyone know why? The case capacity should be identical.

 

[Wee Hooker]

I reciently bought some of those same bullets. 3.8gr of Clays seems to work just fine for target velocity load.

 

[SuperMan]

You may find that certain lead bullets just will not shoot well in the 25-2. The depth of the rifling was made more for jacketed bullets than lead. If you are going to use lead make sure that it is the hardest you can find and slightly oversize.

Many years ago there was an article on shooting 25-2s and the best load the author came up with was the 225 grain Speer JHP with 7.0 grains of Unique....accuracy wise there was nothing close...I tied the load and he was right. The velocity was 840 fps.

Two other loads that worked good were:

225 hard cast TC with 7.0 grains of Unique....800 fps

255 hard cast SWC with 7.0 grains of Unique...890 fps

These bullets were so hard they could not be scratched at all with a thumbnail.

Bob

 

[Fkimble]

AR loads are usually fired in a revolver which has a gap between the cylinder and the barrel. This will cause a little difference

 

[Skip Sackett]

AR loads are usually fired in a revolver which has a gap between the cylinder and the barrel. This will cause a little difference

Now, I used to think that this meant that I would get less velocity from a revolver than from my 1911. What I found was kind of surprising though.

I have a Taurus PT1911 in the 5" barrel version and a M625JM which has a 4" barrel. Using the exact same load in both pistols I got almost the exact same velocity BUT the revolver was almost always 10 to 15fps higher on average.

The revolver had higher ES and SD numbers BUT the velocity was the same coming from the 4" barrel over the 5" of the semi auto.

So, go figure! Shallower rifling, fast powders and long bullets, don't know. One thing I do know though, I laid down my conventional wisdom on that subject!

YMMV

 

[Arkieron]

5.0 gr 231 is an accurate load without bone rattling jar. I am interested how the TC compares in accuracy to the swc. I shoot the TCs some in 9mm.

 

[Dale53]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, Edition #4 has loading data for the Lee TC 230 gr bullet. I have the normal lube groove version mould and really like this bullet in both my 1911's and my 625's.

Regarding the barrel length on the 1911 vs the 625 with 5" barrel. If you figure in the length of the cylinder, you'll see that the revolver has a much longer barrel. In spite of the barrel/cylinder gap in the revolver it is typical to have a 5" barreled revolver to be as fast as the auto with the same length barrel simply because of the cylinder length giving the effect of a longer barrel.

After chronographing a number of both autos and revolvers, they pretty much come out effectively at the same velocities when they both have the same barrel length.

Dale53

 

[grendelbane]

There are so many variables involved in the velocity of a revolver, and one less in the case of an automatic pistol, no cylinder gap. My experience chronographing 2 S&W and 1 Colt M1917, one modern 5"625-8, and numerous 5" Gov't models and clones is that they all live in the same neighborhood. No way to tell without testing which one will prove to be superior in velocity.

Just different Gov't model barrels can easily produce a wide range of velocities.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Regarding the barrel length on the 1911 vs the 625 with 5" barrel. If you figure in the length of the cylinder, you'll see that the revolver has a much longer barrel. In spite of the barrel/cylinder gap in the revolver it is typical to have a 5" barreled revolver to be as fast as the auto with the same length barrel simply because of the cylinder length giving the effect of a longer barrel.

After chronographing a number of both autos and revolvers, they pretty much come out effectively at the same velocities when they both have the same barrel length.
Dale53

I guess that is what I noticed most and that some may miss not knowing the revolver that I am comparing. My M625JM has a 4" barrel and as mentioned the same or faster velocity. I thought that was kind of remarkable.


Just me though!

 

[5906fan]

is there any way to guesstimate the m.e. of a say 240 - 255gr cast slug at say 1000 - 1100 fps?

 

[Skip Sackett]

is there any way to guesstimate the m.e. of a say 240 - 255gr cast slug at say 1000 - 1100 fps?

Plug your numbers in here: Energy Calculator

 

[scattershot]

You might want to check your cylinder throats, too. I have a 25-5 (.45 Colt) and the throats are .457". Soft lead .454 bullets shoot fine, but hard cast .452 bullets do not.