45 ACP, please check pic for proper seating

[Rule3]

I just picked up 500 of these 230 grLRN bullets at our club gun swap/sale.
I have loaded and shot 100 already and all is well. I was loading some more today and was thinking more about seating depth. I orginally seated them to where you see in the pic. Just to the top of the lube bulge/groove whatever

The round has not been crimped yet which will be just a light Lee factory taper crimp.

My guestion is, should I seat just a little deeper so the crimp will form over the top edge of the lube area? The current OAL is 1.230 with 4grs Bullseye.
Thanks

 

[Rule3]

I just picked up 500 of these 230 grLRN bullets at our club gun swap/sale.
I have loaded and shot 100 already and all is well. I was loading some more today and was thinking more about seating depth. I orginally seated them to where you see in the pic. Just to the top of the lube bulge/groove whatever

The round has not been crimped yet which will be just a light Lee factory taper crimp.

My guestion is, should I seat just a little deeper so the crimp will form over the top edge of the lube area? The current OAL is 1.230 with 4grs Bullseye.
Thanks

 

[john traveler]

Your seating dept looks fine. Most semiauto pistols will tolerate seating with a bit of the bore diameter exposed, and most revolver chambers will not. The exposed full diameter portion tends to stick in the charge hole and prevent cylinder closing. You are using a taper crimp instead of a heavy roll crimp, aren't you?

 

[Bruce51]

Looks good to me too. That was a favorite load before I switched to 185TC plated Raniers. Bruce

 

[Rule3]

Well I found some other data and seated them a little further with a light taper crimp. OAL is now 1.200 which was listed in the Hodgdon 2009 annual manual for all their powders. The first time I loaded these I used HP38 and about the same OAL.

Its a Bullseye brand bullet which used to be made here in Fl. I do not think they are in business any longer. The box even says "match grade" so watch out! maybe I can get some groups at 25 yrds instead of 15.

"Bore diameter" thanks. That was the term I was looking for.

 

[Rule3]

Originally posted by OCD1:
Well I found some other data and seated them a little further with a light taper crimp. OAL is now 1.200 which was listed in the Hodgdon 2009 annual manual for all their powders. The first time I loaded these I used HP38 and about the same OAL. Yes, it is for a semi auto, no 45 acp revolver yet, except my heirloom 1917 with holster. US Army issue,it served in WWII and Korea as a Col Medical Dr side arm

Its a Bullseye brand bullet which used to be made here in Fl. I do not think they are in business any longer. The box even says "match grade" so watch out! maybe I can get some groups at 25 yrds instead of 15.

"Bore diameter" thanks. That was the term I was looking for.

 

[moxie]

I've been using an OAL of 1.238 on the 230 RNL for years. Also try 5.0 gr. Unique.

 

[Skip Sackett]

OAL is now 1.200 which was listed in the Hodgdon 2009 annual manual for all their powders.

OCD,
Where did you get the recipe for the 4.0gr of Bullseye? From the Hodgdon data? That doesn't make sense. Bullseye isn't a Hodgdon powder and the comparison could get you into trouble in the future.

Take for example Clays powder. It is a Hodgdon powder. Say you went in reverse and the length data came from Alliant's data and you shortened the OAL to match. I can tell you what will happen friend, you are going to be eating metal for supper, that's what!

Any pressure data you could have used from their loading data can be thrown out the window as pressure builds exponentially when the free space in the case is reduced.

This is a dangerous practice. One that should be discontinued! Compare apples to apples, friend!

The Alliant Reloader's guide doesn't have any data for a LRN and Bullseye, can't understand that as many have used that combination for years. The interesting part for me though was the OAL for a 230gr TMJRN bullet with Bullseye. The OAL for that recipe is 1.260". Granted the powder is much higher but that is what/how to determine the OAL, not the way you did it.

It may be fine this time but this practice continued could wind you up in serious trouble in the future.
Discontinue it.

 

[Bruce51]

Skip, I sent him some data from Hercules that lists that load and a OAL of 1.190. I believe the load will be safe. I personally don't load them that short but have used that load for target shooting in the past. Good advice though, to be careful. Bruce

 

[Skip Sackett]

Originally posted by Bruce Lee M:
Skip, I sent him some data from Hercules that lists that load and a OAL of 1.190. I believe the load will be safe. I personally don't load them that short but have used that load for target shooting in the past. Good advice though, to be careful. Bruce

Understood. I know that Accurate Arms has some short OALs too but I don't use them when I load other brands of powder.

 

[Rule3]

Skip,

The 4grs of Bullseye came from Lee Modern. As you correctly stated there is no data for the 230LRN from Alliant. The Lee lists a min oal for the Bullseye load of 1.190, so I take that as if i am above that and below the max of 1.275 I am OK. I did not just make it up. I did not think comparing a fmj bullet to a lead bullet would be correct either as less generally less powder is needed for a lead bullet. I also do not know what the dimensions of the Speer TMJ are so that would also change the whole equation.

I am not disagreeing with you and I totally respect your experiance, knowledge and concern and thank you for your help.

I am a black and white show it to me in writing kind of guy and this whole OAL thing with both 9MM and 45 is kinda crazy. There appears to be no definite answers depending on the powder and particular brand of bullet. As I just mentioned to Bruce, I just bought 500, 124 FMJ Win Bulk Bullets. The only data on Hodgdons site/manual is using WSF ( a shotgun powder) with a OAL of 1.169, the max. That's it?? So if I use HP38 or W231, what OAL to I load it at??

So, if I screw up, please let me know!

 

[Bruce51]

I remember in the past that Hodgden always seemed to have the most conservative load data. The old Hornady,Sierra and Speer #8 seemed to push their loads to the limit. Since my experience with Hodgden powder is limited to H110 how does their new load data compare with their old manuals? Are they still being very conservative in their charge weights? Bruce

 

[Littledragon777]

For punching paper I like 4.4 gains of Titegroup under a 230 grain Winchester FMJ. I get excellent accuracy with this laod out of my PC945.

 

[Littledragon777]

For punching paper I like 4.4 gains of Titegroup under a 230 grain Winchester FMJ. I get excellent accuracy with this laod out of my PC945.

I forgot to add the C.O.L. is 1.23" on this load.

 

[Skip Sackett]

OCD,
The way to deal with OAL in most handgun cartridges is to use the longest possible according to cartridge design specifications unless otherwise list in the recipe.

In most cases longer is better for accuracy and feeding. Notice the disclaimer, MOST.

If I am starting out with a new round or powder and there isn't any OAL given in the recipe, I look for the same shape bullet with the same powder. Hence the TMJRN was used for OAL ONLY.

Usually the Lee manual is just a copy of other's published data, usually the powder manufacturer's. It is a good source of information and I have used it a lot.

I know what OCD stands for but don't freak out about it. Use this simple rule and you should be good to start. Longer (not longest) is usually better.

The delimiting factor would be if the bullet is touching the lands or not, you don't want to do that. About .015-.030" off of that length is good. Then, if it is an auto, does it fit in the magazine would be the next criteria.

 

[Wayne Dobbs]

That looks kinda deep to me! I like to use 1.25" for round nose and the 200 grain SWCs and use 1.2" for the 225-230 truncated cone (flat point) styles.

 

[Ernie L]

My 45 ACP RNL LOAD next to a white box Winchester RNFMJ...OAL the same for both at 1.27
both bullets weigh the same and are the same length.

why no preview button ..hmmm