Hi I would like to reload .45 auto rim for my mod 1917 and need some advice can i use .45 acp dies on these cases? what number shell holder would i use[rcbs if possible] i could use acp bullets but is there a better alternative i would like to use lead with a cannellure for a roll crimp or jacketedwould be ok any suggestions? Thanks John
.45 auto rim
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ronnie gore
Member
auto rim
i load 45 auto rim, and you use 45 acp dies, i can't remember the shell holder number, but look on midway usa site they have a listing.
i cast a 255 grain lead bullet for my 45 colt guns with a flat point and it works well in the 45 auro rim also.
i load 45 auto rim, and you use 45 acp dies, i can't remember the shell holder number, but look on midway usa site they have a listing.
i cast a 255 grain lead bullet for my 45 colt guns with a flat point and it works well in the 45 auro rim also.
#13 Shell Holder for .45 Auto Rim.
Maximumbob54
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I thought you used .45 Colt dies for the AR version? Or can you just use either one and just need the right shell plate/holder?
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Erich
Member
Bob, I've never heard of anyone using .45 Colt dies for the .45 AR and I can't see how that would work. It's a .45 ACP with a fat rim; use .45 ACP dies and the proper (like Jimmy, I use a Lee #13) shell holder. Like Ronnie, I shoot a lot of 255-grainers in my loads.
Dale53
Member
I have two S&W Model 625's (a 5" 625-6 and a 4" 625-8 JM Special). I shoot from 5000-7500 rounds per year.
I use my own cast bullets cast from WW's+2% tin. I size to .452". My most used bullet is a Mihec clone of the H&G #68 200 gr SWC. I also on occasion load an NOE clone of the Lyman 454424 250 gr Keith bullet.
The original Model 1917's cylinders are not heat treated. They are rather "tender". It is suggested that you not exceed loading manual data when feeding these. If your revolver has fixed sights you may find it takes a 230 gr bullet to more nearly shoot to the sights.
A bullet I favor for both the 1911 and the revolvers in 230 gr weight is the Lee TC 230 gr with regular lube groove.
In my revolvers, the #68 200 gr bullet shoots well under an inch at 25 yards. The Lee 230 gr TC shoots about 1 1/4" groups at 25 yards.
My target load with the #68 bullet is 4.0 grs of Bullseye (or equivalent velocity with Win 231, or my new favorite Titegroup). The 230 gr Lee I load at .45 ACP velocities (850 fps).
I use Starline cases in my .45 Auto Rim loadings.
Dale53
I use my own cast bullets cast from WW's+2% tin. I size to .452". My most used bullet is a Mihec clone of the H&G #68 200 gr SWC. I also on occasion load an NOE clone of the Lyman 454424 250 gr Keith bullet.
The original Model 1917's cylinders are not heat treated. They are rather "tender". It is suggested that you not exceed loading manual data when feeding these. If your revolver has fixed sights you may find it takes a 230 gr bullet to more nearly shoot to the sights.
A bullet I favor for both the 1911 and the revolvers in 230 gr weight is the Lee TC 230 gr with regular lube groove.
In my revolvers, the #68 200 gr bullet shoots well under an inch at 25 yards. The Lee 230 gr TC shoots about 1 1/4" groups at 25 yards.
My target load with the #68 bullet is 4.0 grs of Bullseye (or equivalent velocity with Win 231, or my new favorite Titegroup). The 230 gr Lee I load at .45 ACP velocities (850 fps).
I use Starline cases in my .45 Auto Rim loadings.
Dale53
Maximumbob54
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Well I have separate dies for each so I lose. Again, another moments thought and I would have realized this.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Here is the MAIN bullet I use in 45AR loads. That being said, I still load them in 45ACP brass. These were designed by Elmer especially for the 45AR.
It comes from an H&G #502 mould, a 240gr SWC with a super deep lube groove and typical Keith crimp groove. When this bullet is in a 45ACP case, and since it won't feed too well in my autos, I don't have to worry about getting them mixed up.
Although, I have loaded them in their correct brass!
It comes from an H&G #502 mould, a 240gr SWC with a super deep lube groove and typical Keith crimp groove. When this bullet is in a 45ACP case, and since it won't feed too well in my autos, I don't have to worry about getting them mixed up.
Although, I have loaded them in their correct brass!
James57
Member
45ar
Dag-nabit Skip, you can post some really good looking loads. We talked some time back about loads for the 255 gr. SWC bullet in the 45AR case but unfortunately, I had a computer failure that lost all my data and didn't have a back-up for cover. Mind sharing some load information on the loads you are showing? I have a Thunder Ranch 4" barrel revolver that does just fine with loads in 200 gr. SWC and 225 gr. TC but I would like to try that 240 gr. bullet of yours. Especially with 4756 -- I used it a lot back in the 60's but haven't used it in years for anything. Thanks, James
Dag-nabit Skip, you can post some really good looking loads. We talked some time back about loads for the 255 gr. SWC bullet in the 45AR case but unfortunately, I had a computer failure that lost all my data and didn't have a back-up for cover. Mind sharing some load information on the loads you are showing? I have a Thunder Ranch 4" barrel revolver that does just fine with loads in 200 gr. SWC and 225 gr. TC but I would like to try that 240 gr. bullet of yours. Especially with 4756 -- I used it a lot back in the 60's but haven't used it in years for anything. Thanks, James
"The original Model 1917's cylinders are not heat treated."
Dale53,
We had a thread on .455 cylinders and .45 ACP 1917 cylinders and heat treatment a little while back. It seems that the US government did order the 1917 cylinders be heat treated.
That said, these guns are still almost 100 years old and don't need to be pushed into the +P range. If one needs more power than what is available with standard .45 ACP or .45 Auto Rim, by all means buy a modern revolver in .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim, or go to a magnum. Enjoy the old warhorses for what they are.
Dale53,
We had a thread on .455 cylinders and .45 ACP 1917 cylinders and heat treatment a little while back. It seems that the US government did order the 1917 cylinders be heat treated.
That said, these guns are still almost 100 years old and don't need to be pushed into the +P range. If one needs more power than what is available with standard .45 ACP or .45 Auto Rim, by all means buy a modern revolver in .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim, or go to a magnum. Enjoy the old warhorses for what they are.
.45 Auto Rim
You can readily load .45 Auto Rim cases with common .45 Auto dies. However, you
will need to use a .45 Auto Rim shell holder as the .45 ACP shell holder is too small.
I load for a 1917 Colt, using .45 ACP dies, but with the Auto Rim shell holder.
You can readily load .45 Auto Rim cases with common .45 Auto dies. However, you
will need to use a .45 Auto Rim shell holder as the .45 ACP shell holder is too small.
I load for a 1917 Colt, using .45 ACP dies, but with the Auto Rim shell holder.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Since no one seems to have noticed you asked specifically for the RCBS shell holder number, it is #8 RCBS.
Currently most die sets are marked .45 ACP/Auto Rim, so that should answer that part of your question. Simply use standard pressure .45 ACO data and everything will work out just fine. You will probably like a Semi-wadcutter cast bullet better than a jacketed one.
Currently most die sets are marked .45 ACP/Auto Rim, so that should answer that part of your question. Simply use standard pressure .45 ACO data and everything will work out just fine. You will probably like a Semi-wadcutter cast bullet better than a jacketed one.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
My RCBS .45 ACP dies feature a taper crimp, since the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. When I started using Auto Rim brass, I bought a roll crimp die from RCBS, as I mostly use cast bullets with crimping cannelure and like the greater amount of crimp the roll crimp die offers.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Simple to find......
James,
The loads I use for the ones pictured are straight out of the Speer #8 manual for the 45AR. From the M625JM they are a handful BUT with Hogue grips very tolerable.
I have to admit though, I haven't been playing with hot 45ACP/AR loads since I have gotten the 45Colt to experiment with.
In fact, I am going to a horse sale today with our youngest daughter and I am trying to figure out which 45Colt I want to take with. For that, and I know this is a terrible thread drift, I have some VERY interesting bullets (boolits) and loads!
James,
The loads I use for the ones pictured are straight out of the Speer #8 manual for the 45AR. From the M625JM they are a handful BUT with Hogue grips very tolerable.
I have to admit though, I haven't been playing with hot 45ACP/AR loads since I have gotten the 45Colt to experiment with.
In fact, I am going to a horse sale today with our youngest daughter and I am trying to figure out which 45Colt I want to take with. For that, and I know this is a terrible thread drift, I have some VERY interesting bullets (boolits) and loads!
I load for a few 0.455 Webley and Enfield MkVI revolvers (and yes, Enfield made Mk VIs in the early 1920s), using AR cases because the cylinders were "butchered by infidels" who wanted to use 45ACP loads. For these and their corresponding SWs that were also "butchered", I use Webley 0.455 dies from Lee and 255 grain LFP sized to 0.454 by a local caster. All Webleys, Enfields and SW triple lock, Mk IIs in 0.455 used a 0.454 bore. So sizing this way gives excellent accuracy when loaded as they should be, to around 650 fps. Remember, these old gals are between 90 and 100 years old. Dave_n
I was just going to cut .2" off the bottom of a 45 Colt seater die, so I could roll crimp 45 auto rim for my S&W 25-2.
But now that I measure the cylinder chambers, they are .474" and the throats are .454".
The 45 Colt seater die is .483" and tapers [between .925" deep and .95" deep] to .454".
I would like cartridges that come out of the seater die to chamber.
I may make a roll crimp die with .472" that steps down to .453".
I am not sure what angle to make that roll feature.
But now that I measure the cylinder chambers, they are .474" and the throats are .454".
The 45 Colt seater die is .483" and tapers [between .925" deep and .95" deep] to .454".
I would like cartridges that come out of the seater die to chamber.
I may make a roll crimp die with .472" that steps down to .453".
I am not sure what angle to make that roll feature.
TSQUARED
Member
All one requires to load 45AR is a set of 45ACP dies and the appropriate shellholder. I have loaded 45AR with a wide variety of bullets from 185 to 230 gr - lead, plated and jacketed. I use the same taper crimp that I use on my 45ACP reloads.
I have measured the roll crimp bevel inside a Lee 45 LC seater die at 26 degrees. I incrementally inserted pin gauges and measured how far they wen in. Then I plotted it in a spread sheet and plotted the tangent of the angle. it seems to resolve at at tan of ~ .5.
I want the roll crimp because the [28kpsi with slow powder] loads I am shooting will yank out the unfired bullets and jam the revolver.
With 300 gr bullets I can seat out to 1.555", which is very different than the 1.275" that will fit in a 45acp magazine.
With 230 gr bullets I am loading at 1.4" OAL.
I want the roll crimp because the [28kpsi with slow powder] loads I am shooting will yank out the unfired bullets and jam the revolver.
With 300 gr bullets I can seat out to 1.555", which is very different than the 1.275" that will fit in a 45acp magazine.
With 230 gr bullets I am loading at 1.4" OAL.
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