45 Colt hunting load accuracy

[duckloads]

I'm going to use my 625 MG in 45 Colt for my deer gun this year. I have been working on an accurate load using hornady 250 gr xtp.

I have tried no. 9, 2400, unique and 296 powders. So far 20 gr of 296 has been my most accurate load. Shooting off a bag I got a six shot, 3" group at 50 yards and a 6-1/2" group at 100 yards.

I am using a red dot holo sight. I have the groups zeroed at 50 yards. It shoots about 7" low at 100 yds.

Can I expect any better that this? With what?

Thanks

 

[Pisgah]

Personally speaking, I couldn't expect better. Not only do most red dots cover up too much of the target for really precise long-range accuracy, but I ain't really all that great a long-range shot with a handgun. Your numbers look darned fine to me.

I use an iron-sighted Uberti 1873 Flat Top target in .45 Colt, strictly limit my shots to 50 yards and less, and at 50 I expect about what you are seeing at 100 when my eyes and nerves are working right. This is with a load that is phenomenally accurate at 25 yards, often putting 5 shots in to an inch or less at 25 yards when shot off a rest.

 

[Skip Sackett]

First off, split the difference. Be 3 1/2" high at 50 yards and 3 1/2" low @ 100. A deer is NEVER gonna know the difference while a 7" low shot on a small deer, just sayin', may be a miss or maim. Neither would be good.

Now, as for your load. Where did you get it? It is certainly outside of the "norm" for 45 Colt loads! John Linebaugh has some thunderers like that only he uses cast bullets. Quite a pressure difference. I am not against using the loads, I just wouldn't use them in the MG configuration. A good Ruger Blackhawk or Redhawk, different story. As a matter of fact, I do load them like that for my Ruger 45 Convertible and a Puma in the same caliber.

Something to think about, flatter shooting. Lighter bullets, better bullet ballistic coefficient, or longer barrel. In the Puma in 45 Colt and a Marlin 1894 in 44Mag, with H110/W296, I get an average of 30fps per extra inch of barrel. My 1400fps, 240gr LSWC load from the ruger, gives me almost 1800fps from the 20" Puma, same with the 44Mag from a 5" M629 Classic.

FWIW, that is right fine shooting. The observation of the "dot" covering a bunch of the target is true, most are 5 MOA (5" @ 100 yards) but they do make it better for old eyes. I have one on my Thompson and @ 100 yards, watch out!

p.s. We will require pictures of any deer you harvest, by the way!

 

[Dragon88]

Where are you getting your load data? I'm a little confused by your W296 load. Hodgdon does not list this powder at all for any non-Ruger 45 Colt loads. For "45 Colt (Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C only)", they list 25.7 to 26.5gr as the range for the 250 XTP. Pressure maxes out at 29,800 CUP with 26.5gr, which is very high for a S&W.

I can't decide if your load would be over pressure for your gun, or just erratic in pressure. Either way, it is not something I would shoot in my own gun. Reducing a W296 charge by 6 grains is far outside of what Hodgdon recommends for this powder, and again, if you did load the correct charge you would be utilizing a very high working pressure for your S&W.

 

[duckloads]

I'm getting my data out of the Speer manual (14?). They list between 19-21 gr 296 with 250 gr jhp. In my gun the 20 gr charge was the most accurate. Speer states that their 45 colt +p loads are mild. I read the articles and look at the pictures.

I also tried some no 9 loads from the same manual. That load is also listed in accurate's data at around 20,000. Psi or cup I forget at the moment. I cross checked this and it is right around 45 acp pressures.

All my cases fall out of the cylinder with minimal help from the ejector rod. Also, my primers (wlp) look no different than my loads of 9 gr unique with 250 lswc.

I've shot 50-60 of these with no worries.

 

[Rule3]

Here ya go. Some "Jarhead" sent me this once I use some of the loads in my late model 25 Mt Gun. The SW can take more than some folks think. Not quite Ruger and Freedom Arms but enough.

Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

 

[Skip Sackett]

Forgot about that article! Senility is kind of fun at times!

At any rate, get the #246 version of Handloader if you want the skinny on loads for the 45Colt and modern handguns.

Don't have time now, but will look later to see about your load.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, let me summarize the gist of the article: 3 types of loads: 14,000psi, 20,000psi and 32,000psi.

The lowest loads are for those old single actions that were made at the turn of the century. Not black powder but not strong metallurgy either.

The next set of loads are for the Smith double action revolvers and those in that category. These are the 20,000psi loads.

Then the ones that are Thompson Center/Ruger, single and double action, and he also shoots some of these, a limited diet, in the Smith as well. I own a M25 -7. It has never seen these types of loads and probably never will. Two reasons: #1; I like my gun and wouldn't want to shoot it loose. #2: The sights. The front one is already too short for heavy bullets. If I jack up the 45-270SAA, 285gr as I cast them, to the full extent that they will take, I would have to aim 12" low @ 50 yards! Seriously! I already worked on the rear sight blade so I could get lower groups. I don't want to do that again. Now, I shoot a home cast H&G #502, Elmer's design for the 45AR, that throws a really nice 240gr LSWC, loaded with 9.0gr of Unique. Throws them at around 1000fps from the 5" tube. Wonderful and authoritative. Smacks the snot out of bowling pins, even at 50 yards!

I will post another load that I use but I want to put this up as a disclaimer: This is not for your Smith and Wesson 45 Colt revolver, um, period. I shoot this in a the aforementioned Ruger 45 caliber convertible. It has a 5 1/2" barrel. 25.0gr of H110 under that 280gr LSWC. It delivers right at 1400fps from that 5 1/2" tube. Now that is a real 45 Colt, brothers and sisters!

John Linebaugh, the famous gun smith, carries a Smith and Wesson revolver in 45 Colt. He says that they will handle the 32,000psi loads. I am going to take his word for it!


His article is online and it has his loads right in it. Take it for what it is worth and read his disclaimers. Just a suggestion though, you (and me too) aren't as smart as John, don't go beyond what he has put out. Just a suggestion. You do as you want. (Directed at whoever reads this and no one in particular)

 

[fredj338]

You could simply try another bullet, your gun may just not like the XTP, but 3" 50yd accuracy is certainly huntable to maybe 75yds. I would want a bit better out at 100, but maybe that is all you & the gun are capable of? My RBBH 44mag w/ a 2X scope is a legit 100yd gun giving me sub 4" groups off a field rest. If I miss out at 100yds, my max, then it's on me, not the gun or load. FWIW, I prefer lead bullets for all my revolvers. Less wear & tear & terrific accuracy. Terminally, they can be just as good too.

 

[Rule3]

I think the big thing to remember is to not try and make the 45 Colt into a 44 Mag. That's what the 44 Mag is for or even a 41 Mag.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not sure you need all that velocity. I know I've said this before but it's still true, the .45 Colt was developed to take a horse right out from under it's rider with a 250gr bullet at around 900 fps. The same load will still do the same today and without a doubt take a deer.

I would load a 255gr LSWC over a full charge of wither W231, AA#5 or HS-6 and call it good. I have has good success with all 3 powders and all 3 were accurate.

 

[pps]

You could simply try another bullet, your gun may just not like the XTP, but 3" 50yd accuracy is certainly huntable to maybe 75yds. I would want a bit better out at 100, but maybe that is all you & the gun are capable of? My RBBH 44mag w/ a 2X scope is a legit 100yd gun giving me sub 4" groups off a field rest. If I miss out at 100yds, my max, then it's on me, not the gun or load. FWIW, I prefer lead bullets for all my revolvers. Less wear & tear & terrific accuracy. Terminally, they can be just as good too.

I agree. 45 Colt just seems perfect for cast:

...And HS-6 is a fantastic powder. Not a Smith and Wesson, but it's a 45 Colt

 

[Snapping Twig]

Big boolits don't need high velocity to be terminal.

Long range, well it's helpful I'll admit.

I'm a fan of 9g Unique under a 255g cast SWC/RNFP to duplicate the BP load at 900fps.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I'm not sure you need all that velocity. I know I've said this before but it's still true, the .45 Colt was developed to take a horse right out from under it's rider with a 250gr bullet at around 900 fps.

Snap, I have heard that too and have no doubt about it being true but, I have not been able to find any documentation that supports that claim. Do you have some?

 

[Skip Sackett]

PPS,
Is that the "Ruger Only" boolit from Miha?

That is absolutely cool!

I am running a group buy over there for its little brother, 454640, at 248gr with the large round HP pins and 280gr as a solid. I really like that nose shape and the large round pins make it a real performer in the 44Mag. Can't wait to get the 454640 version of it!

Great pics too! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Big boolits don't need high velocity to be terminal.

Long range, well it's helpful I'll admit.

I'm a fan of 9g Unique under a 255g cast SWC/RNFP to duplicate the BP load at 900fps.

This is my standard load for the 45Colt. 9.0gr of Unique and any cast bullet from 240gr to 280gr. Well over 900fps from all of my firearms though. Mine are all 5" barrels or longer though!

 

[pps]

PPS,
Is that the "Ruger Only" boolit from Miha?

That is absolutely cool!

I am running a group buy over there for its little brother, 454640, at 248gr with the large round HP pins and 280gr as a solid. I really like that nose shape and the large round pins make it a real performer in the 44Mag. Can't wait to get the 454640 version of it!

Great pics too! Thanks for sharing!

Yes, that is the mold from Miha. Thanks on the compliment on the pics. The one for it's little brother should be fantastic too. 13 grains of HP-6 gets a muzzle velocity (7 1/2" barrel) of 1120fps while 23 grains of H-110, which is a full grain below what Linebaugh has listed as a max load for this weight bullet, yields 1300fps. The bullet is very accurate at both velocities.

For the solid bullets I'll cast the next batch a little softer, as they need 1300fps impact to start to deform when the bullets are water dropped. The hollow point bullets I poured were about 20:1 lead:tin and they performed beautifully between 1300 and 1100 fps...so my deer hunting/thin skin animal round will be the hollow point at 1100, and my bear/boar round will be the solid, air cooled wheel weight at 1300fps. I seem to lean towards casting things a LOT softer than I used to a few years ago.

The diminutive round in the lower left is for comparison in that test media (.357 158 grain jhp at 1250 fps penetrated 16-18" and expansion to .50")

 

[Smee78]

Just for S&G have you had your cylinder throats checked? It could help shrink your groups?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Snap, I have heard that too and have no doubt about it being true but, I have not been able to find any documentation that supports that claim. Do you have some?

I heard that mentioned on a gun documentary I think on the History Channel when they were covering the Colt SAA and it's use by the Calvary. If I can remember what they said, they wanted a cartridge that had the ability to take the horse right out from under it's rider in combat. (I'm just guessing but that's probably because it's so hard to aim while on horseback so taking the horse out of the fight was good too) They also covered the wide spread use of the 44-40 by the civilian market instead of the .45 Colt because the 44-40 was chambered in the Winchester levergun while the .45 Colt never was.

Sorry I don't have a link to point to.