45 Colt.....where to go from here

[gregintenn]

I'd like your advice, opinions, and observations.

I have a S&W that was a 455; not the triple lock, but the next model. It has been cut to 4", and rechambered for 45 Colt.

I am having leading problems. Deciding .452 bullets were too small, I found a bag of no name .454 semiwadcutters. These are lubricated, but with what I don't know. I loaded these with 8 grains of Unique; a mid range load in my books. They were scary accurate, but leaded like I've never seen before. They were also a bit sticky to remove from the cylinder.

.454 bullets will drop or push with little resistance through the cylinder throats.

What would you try next.

 

[arjay]

I would try them with 7 grains.Sticky extraction tells me 8 gr was hot for that gun.If they are falling through the throats,they are still too small.

 

[gregintenn]

Does there come a point to where the bore/forcing cone diameter becomes a concern, or do you simply base your bullet sizing on the chamber throat size?

I agree that i should have started with a minimum load.

 

[arjay]

So far Ive had good luck going by the fit in the throat,but that's only a dozen or so guns.
From what Ive read,if the throat is smaller than the barrel,they need to be rebored.

 

[Frank237]

I would pin gauge the throats...with a rebore no telling how large they may be.

I had a bullet caster who used to do a traditional, HOLLOW based 255 gr .45 Colt slug at a fairly soft 8 bnh. Those worked fine in about everything, with minimal leading even on an old 25-5 with very large throats.

First I'd measure the throats to see where your at.

Glen E. Fryxell, Cast bullets and firearm information and history

I'd also peruse the articles on Frixell's site regarding proper cast bullet FIT.

 

[gregintenn]

Like I sad, the throats vary from a gentle push to get the .454 bullet through, to it nearly dropping through. I do get a bit of interference with all the throats. I don't have pin gauges, but that tells me approx .454-.455 average? .452 bullets drop through unimpeded.

I believe the original 455 bore diameter was supposed to be .454.

 

[arjay]

I think one of the online casters is making a 454 bullet in two hardness levels,but I'm drawing a blank on the name.Im thinking a softer bullet might do the trick.

 

[gregintenn]

I wonder if a hollow base .454 wouldn't do the trick. I may look for that.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Give the Remington 250gr LRN a try, they are .455" diameter and have a shallow hollow base. They are soft and bump up at modest pressures and work well in my 3rd gen Colt SAA's with throat diameters up to .458" with just a bit of bore leading. They are a bit messy with their graphite external lube, I wipe the nose off to prevent lube build up in the seating die. Midway sells em bulk.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

You didn't say how heavy your SWC .454's are, not that it really matters. I would slow them down some. Your revolver is almost a century old. My personal philosophy is, Accuracy above cleanliness! You have a re-bored gun, sometime there will be no accuracy, so you found a load that works, that is your "Go To" load until you find something better...if that every happens! Have fun shooting (and in this case cleaning!) Ivan

 

[loc n load]

45 colt

Here's one way I deal with my "big throat" issues with the 45 colt..for the colt I size them to .454..these are from a Mi Hec mold and they weigh in at 250 gr in the HB version or 280 gr. in the solid..also shoot them in the 45 acp....as expected they are quite accurate and cut big full caliber holes which gives me the "warm & fuzzies". I also cast these in the 44, 41 and 38/357's.....all good. I have several S&W 45 colts that have .454 throats that exhibit the characteristics you describe with .454 bullets. I cast about a dozen different SWC's and HP's versions and size them all to .454 and they shoot accurately in my guns , as accurate as I can hold....when the snow stops flying and the temp's warm I am going to drag my Ransom rest and Chrono out and we will see what is what with these bullet/load combo's.

 

[Doubless]

If memory serves, the original Webley lead bullet was a hollow based projectile shot at about 650 fps. It HAD to be soft for the base to obturate... I think the projectiles you are using are just too hard. You might try something cast of 1:20 like the BPCR guys use.

I have a Lyman 454424 mould that drops a nominal 255-grain SWC, and I have the capabilities of mixing 1:20 alloy. PM me if I can help...

 

[GrayGhost99]

I had a 25-5 with overly large throats that was still scary accurate at 25 yards with 452 255 grain semi wadcutters with a target load of bullseye. Sometimes don't question and just shoot.

 

[gregintenn]

I had a 25-5 with overly large throats that was still scary accurate at 25 yards with 452 255 grain semi wadcutters with a target load of bullseye. Sometimes don't question and just shoot.

I wouldn't question, but you haven't seen the lead deposits this load leaves.

 

[mtgianni]

As a wild generalization, leading in the first part of the bbl is due to sizing, in the rear due to lube failure and throughout can be alloy, pressure or sizing issues.

 

[Cpo1944]

I agree that 8 G. of unique was too hot . I loaded a batch with 8.5 G of unique and the recoil hurt my hand when I shot with wood grips. & G was nice and no leading.
Also on my Colt SAA switching to Trail Boss powder & .454 bullets made the leading disappear.

 

[ironhead7544]

I heard the bore on the .455 was on the large size and could be the problem. Slug the bore and see if it fits in the throats.

Jacketed bullets might be the way to go. Or a softer alloy. The lead bullets for the 45 Auto Rim factory loads have a hollow base. That may work if you can find them.

I think the 455 cylinders were not heat treated so would only use start loads in the converted 45 Colt revolvers.

 

[nagant]

Edit (converted .455 to 45 colt) I just got a reply from Alliant powder. I asked about 8.0 grs unique with a 250 grn. .452 cast bullet in my 2nd mdl H.E. and they replied that data from Lyman listed 6.3 to 8.2 grain range and advised starting low and work up.

 

[M E Morrison]

Hornady offers (or used to) a .454 swaged bullet intended for cowboy loads. Should be soft enough to seal up at your velocities.

 

[mark44spec]

As others have said measure your throats, and bore diameter.Slug the bore with a round ball and micrometer. Buy yourself a cheap set of small hole gages to do the throats. As long as your throats are larger than your bore you should be able to make things work. I have a brazilian 1917 in 45acp that i have to size .456 to make work. If you make your bullets fill the throats you should be in business. Of course your mileage may vary. Also make certain that expander is not too small, or that you are not otherwise resizing your bullet during your reloading process.