.455 and we need help!

[830singleshot]

I've just bought this lovely(about 85%+ original blue with a great bore) .455 and am looking forward to getting it shooting. It is extensively proof marked and has a unshaved cylinder. I saw that Hornady and Fiocchi had ammo. Well, now that I have it in hand I can't locate any. I was given 1 45 Schofield brass and and found the rim thickness and length wrong. When I shortened the brass to 1.00 OAL it slides into the chamber nicely. I had to remove 0.015 from the rim thickness to allow the cylinder to function smoothly.
This is a lot longer than the info I found on line for brass but the chamber does not seem to be altered. I also have some 45 AR brass I can alter if I have to. Just looking for some help on which way to go. Would prefer to buy brass if someone can help.

 

[830singleshot]

sights

This is my other issue with this gun and it is a big one. The only modification on this revolver is the front sight. My idea is to slot it and use a period Sheard combined with a reproduction Wondersight. My intention is not to try and pass anything off but to build something fun to play with that looks right like someone would have done in this prewar period.

Let me know what you think or can help me with.

 

[opoefc]

Couple questions: Are the proof marks British ? If so, are they for .455 caliber or .45 Colt or ? The fact that there are proof mark is a big clue that the caliber has been altered by some method. Try .455 ammo. and see if functions OK. Also try .45 Colt & .45 Auto rim. Someone has lowered the original front sight, as they found the gun shot low with whatever caliber it is chambere to shoot, so they filed down the sight. Slotting the sight and installing a Sheard is OK. Wondersights are a great idea for these older guns and they are still made, no need to look for a replica. The gun can be a great shooter, once you find out what the cylinder will chamber. Ed.

 

[6string]

Hi,
IMHO, the chambers on your revolver are correct. The 455 existed by many names and in many versions. The 455 Webley is but one of them. It is a bit on the short side. A good bit longer is the rarer 455 Colt cartridge. Same in all dimensions except length. The chamber lengths were cut to allow for any 455 to fit.
For reloading purposes, I have found it best to thin the rim first to .040" on a lathe, then cut the case length to match the chamber, maybe taking off a hair just to be sure there is enough clearance to allow the case mouth to release the bullet without being inhibited by the chamber shoulder.
There's a lot more specifics to loading for the 455, but that should do for cases....

Jim

 

[glowe]

45 Colt or 45 Schofield brass will work to make 455 cases. One additional problem that I did not see mentioned is that you will most likely have to deepen the primer pocket in order to seat the primer flush with the base. It is a lot of work to get 50 done, but at least you can go shoot the revolver.

I reload with Trail Boss powder and get great results. A standard 200 grain RNFP with 4.5 grains of TB gives 650 fps. The powder basically fills the case, so absolutely no chance of double charging.

There is an interesting article on the 455 cartridges that is worth a read.

Those Confusing .455s - International Ammunition Association

 

[dangt]

If the 45Colt or 45 Schofield case is modified by having the rim thinned from the FRONT side ( I'm sure that is what 6string was referring to above) then the primer pocket is still correctly deep.

 

[dangt]

The correct length for the .455 MkI case is .870" . First cases I modified about 35 years ago I had cut to .920" since I did not have that spec and they chambered fine in my S&W .455 2nd model. .455 original chambers are pretty deep in S&Ws so I don't doubt your 1" length fits. As long as you can chamber a loaded round easily may be all that is necessary.

 

[glowe]

If the 45Colt or 45 Schofield case is modified by having the rim thinned from the FRONT side

I assume you are using a lathe to accomplish this?? I can not see that many people having that piece of equipment available to them. I have thinned the rim by the use of a drill motor and a disc sander. It is quick, but that requires a deepening of the primer pocket.

 

[DWalt]

If the rim is too thick, the only way to thin it is from the front. That is difficult unless you have a lathe. Fortunately, it needs to be done only once. .45 Auto Rim is the recommended case to start with, trimmed to 0.89". There may be some of the specialty reloading supply sources that stock original .455 brass or modified .45 AR cases. .45 ACP reloading dies work OK for .455.

 

[glowe]

If the rim is too thick, the only way to thin it is from the front.

As I noted before, I have about 100 cases that I thinned from the rear and deepened the primer pocket. They have been reloaded many times and work fine. It is a lot of work, but if you can not find any brass or ammunition and do not have a lathe, there are few options.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

MidwayUSA sells Bertram .455 cases. They are pricey at ~$2 per case, but you don't have to mill them.

 

[Jack Flash]

I bought some Bertram cases, but was disappointed with the quality. Buffalo Arms used to have cases made the right way from .45 Colt brass, but I see now that they are "temporarily out of stock". Too bad, the price was reasonable IIRC.
Reloading Supplies|Buffalo Arms Company

 

[6string]

Hi,
There is also a cheap, non-lathe method. You can use an electric drill by chucking a Lee case length cutting gauge using it as a mandrel. These little case gauges are the caliber specific accessories they sell for their handheld case trimmer tool. The 45 ACP one will do the trick in a pinch, or you can cut down a 45 Colt one to your needs. They may make a Schofield one these days, but I don't know.
To actually cut the rim, you'll need a safe edge file and a dial micrometer. Spin the case in a drill press or drill clamped in a vise, place the file safe edge against the side of the case and then use the file cutting edge in the inside lip of the rim. Check often with the micrometer. I haven't used this method in many years, but do recall having to partially size the case first so it would have sufficient grip on the case gauge.

PS: thinning the headstamp face of the case and then having to deepen the primer pocket is a pain, unless you are planning to restamp the case for the new caliber.

Hope this helps,
Jim

 

[DWalt]

I bought some Bertram cases, but was disappointed with the quality. Buffalo Arms used to have cases made the right way from .45 Colt brass, but I see now that they are "temporarily out of stock". Too bad, the price was reasonable IIRC.
Reloading Supplies|Buffalo Arms Company

At one time, the poor quality and short life of Bertram brass was widely recognized. Whether it has improved any over the years, I do not know. As stated, there ARE other ways to thin the rim, but use of a lathe is, by leaps and bounds, the easiest. One could also start with .45 Colt or .45 S&W (Schofield) brass, but the recommended mother case is the .45 AR.

I notice Gad's lists .455 brass: http://gadcustomcartridges.com/

 

[Jack Flash]

Hornady used to sell .455 brass, but it was the shorter Mk II length (IIRC it was 0.770 or thereabouts). I thought Starline sold Mk II length .455 brass as well, but I never bought any of either. I do have some of Hornady's Mk II loaded ammo and of course some Fiocchi.

I haven't kept up with what is available. I long ago bought all the Dominion .455 Colt brass and Buffalo Arms converted .455 Colt brass I will probably ever need.

 

[830singleshot]

Front sight or lack there of

As you can see from the picture, someone filled off the front sight. My thought was to use a period correct blade sight after slotting the base and pinning it in place. What would you suggest?

I plan on pairing the front sight with a reproduction "wondersight".

 

[830singleshot]

455 ammo

I have a lathe so I can modify existing cases if need be. I want 100 and prefer to buy, but will do what needs to be done.

I'm so busy with family and work issues it will be a while before it all gets sorted out but I think it will be a lot of fun.

 

[dangt]

I assume you are using a lathe to accomplish this?? I can not see that many people having that piece of equipment available to them.

Sorry, I did not read this in time to give a timely answer. Yes , I do have a lathe. Thirty five years ago I did not and had a local gunsmith with a lathe thin the rims for me and I shortened the cases.

The OP just said he does have a lathe so this following comment does not really apply to him. Many times writers on this forum lament not having lathe nor the knowledge to use one for various projects. I am amazed at just how many hobbyists are out there that do have one that may or may not be into guns. Of course, once a person in need finds someone with a metal lathe, you never know how much skill or knowledge the lathe owner has.

 

[CptCurl]

I'm lucky to have Hornady brass.

My solution to the problem came from Hornady. It looks like they just make seasonal or sporadic runs of this very fine brass.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/220525-loading-455-mk-ii.html

 

[DWalt]

Having a small lathe can be a lifesaver at times (just like having a Dremel tool). I bought a small used Sherline lathe about 15 years ago (which was reasonably fully equipped) for a very modest sum, and have used it constantly since for many gun-related and non-gun purposes. Mine has the milling attachment, and it can be used as a lathe, milling machine, or precision drill press. I use it a lot for cartridge conversions of various types (thinning rims, reducing rim diameters, converting rimmed cases to rimless, etc.). The only problem is that you are restricted to fairly small workpieces.