4566 TSW Failure

[ColColt]

I took my 457 and 4566 TSW out for a little trip to the range this morning along with about 300 rounds of hard ball, 200 gr LSWC's and a box of Ranger T 230 gr rounds.

The 457 ate them all but after about 25 or so rounds into shooting the 4566 TSW, I had a failure to go into battery with the fourth round down in my #1 magazine. There's an inspection hole in the hood of the barrel that allows(as most know) viewing of whether a round is in the chamber or not. You could see a live round in the chamber as viewing showed the rim of the case but the slide hadn't gone all the way forward as the photo shows. It lacked that final 3/8 inch or so going into battery.
I ejected the magazine, racked the slide back and the round came out but, I wasn't cognizant enough to see whether the extractor was around the rim or not. It just fell through the bottom of the mag well.

I've racked my brain trying to figure what could have caused this and have come up with a zero. this was a fairly new magazine with new spring and follower with only about 100 rounds through that particular magazine. The pistol itself is new with about 450 rounds through it. Try as I may, I couldn't get it to repeat that failure in the 50-75 rounds that followed.


Any and all ideas appreciated as this is one of my favorite pistols.

 

[427mach1]

Did you look at the round that failed to reach full battery? Sometimes there can be a burr on the shell rim that catches and won't let it seat properly. Inspect the round in question carefully and mic it if you have a set of calipers. Let us know what you find.

 

[snw19_357]

Especially since you were unable to duplicate the problem, I would suspect it had to do with that one round.

 

[ColColt]

I wish that were the case but, it was all new ammo-Ranger T 230 gr. right out of the box.

 

[snw19_357]

...300 rounds of hard ball, 200 gr LSWC's and a box of Ranger T 230 gr... rounds

....but after about 25 or so rounds into shooting the 4566 TSW, I had a failure to go into battery with the fourth round down in my #1 magazine.

So you were only firing the Ranger T's, around 25+ of them, in the 4566TSW?

 

[Fastbolt]

The odd inexplicable failure-to-chamber like that can come along every so often.

Sometimes it might be related to the ammunition. Did the same round get reused, and if so, did it chamber and fire normally?

I've seen the extra felt recoil of the RA45TP loads cause an occasional shooter to momentarily allow their grip to "shift".

One of our guys had a single round of one the major "premium" LE .45 loads fail to chamber in his 4566TSW one time. Careful examination afterward revealed that the case hadn't been properly trimmed. It was slightly too long to allow the slide & barrel to go into full battery. It can happen.

Also, sometimes an occasional momentary change in a grip can allow it to happen.

I once had a couple of 4566TSW's which exhibited the same occasional failure to go into battery during live-fire. Everything appeared normal and I could find any obvious reason, but it was happening a few times. After discussing it with the factory I replaced the barrels and the problems went way. One of the barrels was returned to the factory for examination, where it was carefully checked for specification with their computer driven laser measuring device. The barrel was normal and was returned to me. I installed it in another 4566TSW anmd the gun ran fine.

The lesson?

When you're dealing with a "Parts is Parts" gun (like many of the newer models offered by the various manufacturers), sometimes the tolerance variance among the various parts used to make the assembled gun can result in a slight tolerance stack which can sometimes lend itself to a functioning issue.

Replacement of one or more parts might resolve the issue in that one gun, and the very same parts which were removed from that gun might well work just fine in another gun. It happens.

Having fired many tens of thousands of rounds through many different 3rd gen .45's, including dozens of new production 4566/4513TSW's, I'm no longer bothered by an errant round which doesn't feed or fully chamber in a gun.

It's when a single gun exhibits a pattern of such occurrences that it starts to concern me.

Ever have your car or truck fail to catch when you turn the engine over? It can happen. It doesn't always mean there's a problem. Nor does it mean it's likely to happen again any time soon, either. If it happens more than once or twice, or a light comes on, I'll take it to someone to diagnose and correct.

I had a 4013TSW choke on me one time during an instructor update class. The round simply failed to feed with a nose-up stoppage. I cleared it and continued on with the course-of-fire. I checked the round afterward and reloaded it. It fed & fired just fine. The gun ran the rest of the course (several hundred rounds) without another bobble, and for many, many more rounds after I returned. It was later desired by another guy at my agency (we were out-of-stock on that model between shipments), so I let him have it. It ran just fine for him, and he's a shooter.

Sometimes these sorts of thing just happen. Sometimes it may be a momentary inconsistency of a shooter's grip. Sometimes it might be an ammunition tolerance issue. Sometimes it might be a random even that is never explained.

It's not a "4566TSW failure".

Unless it becomes part of a pattern of similar occurrences, it's just one of those random things that can happen when we're using and shooting semiauto pistols.

If it becomes part of a pattern, call S&W.

Otherwise, if it were me, I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.

FWIW, I remember when a few of us took a couple of NIB Sig P226 & P220's out to the firing line. We were looking them over prior to some T&E. A couple of instructors loaded the guns and fired them. Each instructor experienced a single failure-to-feed in the first mag load with each gun. It can happen.

 

[ColColt]

So you were only firing the Ranger T's, around 25+ of them, in the 4566TSW?

I had an entire box of 50 of which about half were fired in the 4566. Odd, it fed those 12 year old SWC's just fine.

 

[ColColt]

Sometimes it might be related to the ammunition. Did the same round get reused, and if so, did it chamber and fire normally?

Yep, I put it back as the first round, released the slide and it fed fine.

Also, sometimes an occasional momentary change in a grip can allow it to happen.

That's very possible as I had decided to lean against the left side of my "stall" since no one was there on either side of me and try to aim a little more steadily. Maybe my grip did change somewhat but as you said, it was probably a fluke and not going to worry about it. It does bother me a little that this particular gun has had 2-3 failures of some sort in it's short(about 500 rounds) career and my old 4506 that's 20 years old never has any problem. Maybe I just need to give it more love and attention.

 

[Fastbolt]

Oddly enough, it was when I was shooting from a barricade/rest position that I experienced my feeding stoppage with the 4013TSW that afternoon.

Having watched more folks shoot from a LOT of various barricade/cover positions over the years ... and having done so myself, of course ... I agree that many times the presence of a cover/barricade "support" seems to result in a lessening of someone's grip support/stability and wrist lock.

As far as the 5" 4506 being perhaps more reliable than the shorter 4566/4566TSW? Not sure I'd go quite that far, but it might be fair to remember that it's always been the 5" models in 1911's that have exhibited the more consistent reliability over the years. Maybe slightly greater slide mass, velocity & slide travel have an influence, after all?

I know the smaller 4513TSW's, and especially the CS45's, seem to require more effort and attention on the part of the shooter than the larger models when it comes to shooter-induced stability and grip support. Nature of the beast when it comes to increasingly smaller .45's.

 

[ColColt]

In retrospect, it could be that barricade position I was using was the culprit in that it didn't happen before or after. I guess my particular affinity and love for the 4506 is due in part to it being my first DA/SA big bore and was absolutely then as now so reliable. I accredit Mas Ayoob for that pistol as several of his write ups in the gun mags back around 1990-91 is what prompted my decision to buy it.

There was no reason for that failure today. New magazine, springs, follower, recoil spring and a mere few hundred rounds through it as it was bought new. The only other part that wasn't new was me. At any rate, I'm sure next time it won't happen now that my position is suspect. I'll be more cognizant about that in the future.

 

[KurtC]

The failure of a cartridge to fully go into battery is often related to the cartridge fired immediately prior to it. If that one is slightly underpowered, the slide does not go fully rearward and does not develope full compression of the recoil spring.

 

[hdsoftail]

I just don't get too concerned with an occasional FTF situation. Having shot many guns over the last 50 years A FTF is usually tied to the batch of ammo or a issue of buildup of lead in the chamber. Reloads, of course, are a primary concern with this type of problem.

If the pistol develops a consistent problem with different types of ammo then you need to be concerned with the operation of the pistol or magazines.

This is one reason that so many instructors place an emphasis on learning how to clear a problem quickly with a carry weapon. There is no perfect carry pistol and we must have the muscle memory drill down pat to handle any situation. I am sure you are well aware of this fact.

 

[gboling]

The first time I fired my new 4566TSW I had several failures to feed that I eventually determined was caused by a burr around the firing pin hole. As the fresh cartridge was pushed forward from the magazine the rim of the case slid up the bolt face and stopped at the firing pin hole. I noticed a semi-circular burr on the rim of each cartridge that failed to feed. A care full spin of a drill bit on the firing pin hole removed the burr and ended the problem. I used only two fingers to spin the drill bit to prevent excessive cutting.

 

[ColColt]

I did check the breech face and it seemed smooth as a baby butt-no detectable burrs. I also checked the extractor for burrs and found none there.

There is a slight oblong extension of where the firing pin hits the primer and if you rake your finger over this there is a snag...sort of like a burr but, I don't know why this is. A firing pin problem perhaps?

 

[Fastbolt]

A little bit of firing pin wipe isn't necessarily an indication of a problem.

I've seen it happen often enough in various 3rd gen, and other, pistols.

 

[epj]

My 4566TSW experienced a few failures to go into battery with reloads the other day. I checked the dimensions and found the taper crimp to be on the loose side of specs. These rounds fed fine in my Kimber. Long story short, I tightened the crimp a bit and the problem went away. Also, I may have been guilty of a bit of limpwristing. I have a tendency to loosen my grip when shooting slowly at a bullseye type target.

 

[ColColt]

I have a 4-die set of RCBS dies bought many rears ago. I bought an extra taper crimp die to separate the seating from the crimping. I've never moved the adjustment on the taper crimp die and I test things periodically to see if it's still holding, so to speak, by chambering a seated and crimped round and checking the OAL before and then after chambering and ejection. If the bullet moves any, I turn the crimp die a tad down but, I've only had to do that once-long ago. It's held it's crimp adjustment for years.