I had a FTF at the range this morning with my 457. It was a nose down on the feed ramp with the rim riding high on the breach past the extractor. I was trying for a group and had my ammo box on top of the table in front of me with my hands resting on it to steady things. Possibility it could have been a limp wristed situation but I don't know for sure. It didn't happen before nor did it happen afterward. Still, it was a bummer and a disappointment. These are pretty new magazines with new springs along with new recoil springs(inner and outer).
457 FTF
- Thread starter ColColt
- Start date
novalty
Member
I'd only be concerned if it continues to happen, and at that point a call to S&W, would probably be in order.
Initial thought?
Lightweight, compact pistol chambered in a big caliber.
Grip stability ... grip stability ... grip stability.
Sometimes you'll see someone relax their grip and wrist when using a rest.
It's not a revolver.
What ammunition was being used?
If it were to continue to occur under normal conditions when a properly firm grip and locked wrist was occurring, and good factory ammunition was being used, I'd consider calling S&W.
Lightweight, compact pistol chambered in a big caliber.
Grip stability ... grip stability ... grip stability.
Sometimes you'll see someone relax their grip and wrist when using a rest.
It's not a revolver.
What ammunition was being used?
If it were to continue to occur under normal conditions when a properly firm grip and locked wrist was occurring, and good factory ammunition was being used, I'd consider calling S&W.
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The ammo was my reloads consisting of 2-3 times fired W-W brass and the Hornady 230 gr FMJ-FN behind 8.4 gr of HS-6. The photo is a recreation of what I saw today. I remember it was the last round in the magazine but again-new mags and springs.
I had no such occurrence while standing on my "hind legs".
I had no such occurrence while standing on my "hind legs".
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The use of reloaded brass is always something to consider eliminating as a possible factor when this sort of thing occurs ... and I say that as a former handloading enthusiast when I was younger. When I function-test a pistol I use good quality factory loads to establish a baseline of normal functioning.
Just out of curiosity, what's the guesstimated velocity of that loading?
Sometimes a live round being released out-of-time for normal feeding can be related to either a mag lip dimension issue (like a damaged mag), over-powered ammo, a follower issue (especially if it's the last round doing it), a dirty mag (where some debris has worked its way in and slowed the follower's lift) and the pistol (frame) not being supported while the slide is running at its normal speed. The "shooter variable" and the reloaded rounds would be the usual suspects in this sort of isolated occurrence.
If it doesn't occur again now that you've paid attention to your grip, even when using your reloads, it might just have been one of those things.
FWIW, I was running through a class one time with a newly issued 4103TSW. During that class I experienced a single failure-to-feed, which coincidentally occurred when I was doing some supported barricade shooting for some 50 yd shooting. I cleared the stoppage and continued on. I kicked myself for what I felt was a momentary bit of laxness on my part while using the barricade for a support. It didn't reoccur during the remainder of the class that week, nor did it ever occur again when I returned and did a lot of my regular qual & training drills ... even when using barricades. That was using factory ammo, too.
The "shooter variable" ...
When I function-test a pistol I use good quality factory loads to establish a baseline of normal functioning.Just out of curiosity, what's the guesstimated velocity of that loading?
Sometimes a live round being released out-of-time for normal feeding can be related to either a mag lip dimension issue (like a damaged mag), over-powered ammo, a follower issue (especially if it's the last round doing it), a dirty mag (where some debris has worked its way in and slowed the follower's lift) and the pistol (frame) not being supported while the slide is running at its normal speed. The "shooter variable" and the reloaded rounds would be the usual suspects in this sort of isolated occurrence.
If it doesn't occur again now that you've paid attention to your grip, even when using your reloads, it might just have been one of those things.
FWIW, I was running through a class one time with a newly issued 4103TSW. During that class I experienced a single failure-to-feed, which coincidentally occurred when I was doing some supported barricade shooting for some 50 yd shooting. I cleared the stoppage and continued on. I kicked myself for what I felt was a momentary bit of laxness on my part while using the barricade for a support. It didn't reoccur during the remainder of the class that week, nor did it ever occur again when I returned and did a lot of my regular qual & training drills ... even when using barricades. That was using factory ammo, too.
The "shooter variable" ...
According to the Hornady manual the velocity with a 5 inch barrel and that load is 850 fps. I think that's pretty much standard velocity for a 230 gr bullet that's not in the +P category. I had a fairly good grip on it but wasn't holding as tight as I would had I been shooting unsupported. The followers were just recently replaced with the springs from S&W and after I put the springs in properly(per your suggestion in another thread
) I felt I was good to go.
All things considered, there's a possibility it was my grip and stance. I can find no visible fault with the magazines and with the springs and followers being new(less than three months) that's all I can surmise.
) I felt I was good to go.All things considered, there's a possibility it was my grip and stance. I can find no visible fault with the magazines and with the springs and followers being new(less than three months) that's all I can surmise.
I've certainly had my fair share of unexplainable 'hiccups' over the course of shooting a lot of different guns and loads.
The velocity sounds right on the money for FMJ, too.
I remember one time when a couple of the other instructors and I pulled a couple of NIB Sigs (226 & 220) we were going to be using for T&E. We loaded them up and started shooting them right out of the box (not exactly recommended) ... and each of the other instructors experienced a failure-to-feed using duty ammo during the first magazine load with the different guns they'd grabbed, loaded and started shooting. I don't recall that happening again during the 'official' T&E period, though. Just one of those things.
Naturally, we'd all like to have flawless feeding and functioning with each pistol we buy and use, but sometimes an occasional blip comes along to let us remember that they're still just machines, and that a number of unexpected factors can come into play and align themselves in just the wrong combination upon occasion.
The velocity sounds right on the money for FMJ, too.
I remember one time when a couple of the other instructors and I pulled a couple of NIB Sigs (226 & 220) we were going to be using for T&E. We loaded them up and started shooting them right out of the box (not exactly recommended) ... and each of the other instructors experienced a failure-to-feed using duty ammo during the first magazine load with the different guns they'd grabbed, loaded and started shooting. I don't recall that happening again during the 'official' T&E period, though. Just one of those things.
Naturally, we'd all like to have flawless feeding and functioning with each pistol we buy and use, but sometimes an occasional blip comes along to let us remember that they're still just machines, and that a number of unexpected factors can come into play and align themselves in just the wrong combination upon occasion.
In all likelihood it was probably the way I was shooting-hunched over a range table(for lack of a better word) with the pistol resting mostly on my ammo box with a towel draped over it and butt resting mostly on the towel.
Well, next time I'll shoot standing up with the same two magazines and same loads and see what develops. It's odd, however, that never in the 20 years I've had my 4506 did it ever, under any circumstances, cause any problems at all. One in a million perhaps. It's earned it's resting place by my bedside stoked with either the 200 gr Flying Ashtray or Ranger T's.
Well, next time I'll shoot standing up with the same two magazines and same loads and see what develops. It's odd, however, that never in the 20 years I've had my 4506 did it ever, under any circumstances, cause any problems at all. One in a million perhaps. It's earned it's resting place by my bedside stoked with either the 200 gr Flying Ashtray or Ranger T's.
I suspect you're probably right in your assessment about the cause.
FWIW, I've often felt that resting the butt of a pistol on a 'rest' introduced more of a chance for a grip-related issue to arise than when using a rest to support the wrists, with the gun extended in front of the rest. Not as much support, of course, but it might help some of us to remember not to let the rest do the work of our grip technique.
I'm not much of a bench rest shooter anymore, except when shooting my handguns from the 100 yd line.
FWIW, I've often felt that resting the butt of a pistol on a 'rest' introduced more of a chance for a grip-related issue to arise than when using a rest to support the wrists, with the gun extended in front of the rest. Not as much support, of course, but it might help some of us to remember not to let the rest do the work of our grip technique.
I'm not much of a bench rest shooter anymore, except when shooting my handguns from the 100 yd line.
I've seldom used this technique but wanted to eliminate me from the quotient to see how those loads would group. I don't shoot 50 yards much less 100-doubtful I could see a pie plate at that distance...unless I had a 3-9X scope.
johnchamp
Member
did you check the recoil spring? and make sure you clean & lube it good to & check the mag springs.
All new springs and mags.
