457 to the range

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I put a set of Sprinco nested recoil springs in my 457 some time ago, but winter kept me from getting it to the range then. It was on my list with about a dozen other guns for range time when the weather broke and today was it's turn along with my 64-6 3".

I set up my standard 9" paper plate tactical targets at about 25 feet. The first shot from the 457 was almost dead center. Great, but from there it went downhill. The rest of the rounds all went low and left. Now, I tend to shoot left anyway, it's something I'm constantly working on with only partial success. This was worse however.

I move to a 10 foot target and after a couple of magazines, my accuracy improved. I think I was flinching a bit in anticipation of the recoil, which is strange. The 457 isn't very recoil intensive, so that shouldn't be happening.

I thought that maybe there was some issue with the recoil spring, but that makes not even a little bit of sense. I still think it's me, not the gun.

A couple of weird things happened. I was using an UPLULA to load the magazines and I was popping rounds in pretty quickly.

I was using an open box of WWB 230gr range ammo. The open part might be relevant. Anyway, about five magazines in a round went bang, but wouldn't extract. Great, I've broken the gun. I carefully pushed the empty casing out of the chamber and looked at it. I was bulged and split. Really, great, something went wrong with the gun and now it's likely to be junk.

Sigh.

Then I looked at the casing very carefully. It was a .40 S&W, not a .45ACP. :confused:

How did that happen? I don't own a .40 S&W gun and haven't in about 6 or 7 years. I had a Glock 23 and never liked the snappy recoil. So, it's not like I mixed the ammo up. It's also a Winchester round and what are the odds of that happening.

I really don't know how a 40 round got into the box, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't put it in there.

I looked the gun over and all seemed OK, so I loaded up more magazines and continued shooting.

Gradually, my point of impact started to pretty closely match my point of aim. That's progress and tells me that once every two years is not enough to shoot that nice 457. Point noted.

There was one other episode of weirdness. Twice the last round in the magazine loaded, but the gun didn't go back into battery. Hmmm. Once was definitely with a yellow follower magazine, the other time I'm not sure. Again, I don't think this is recoil spring related, but would like to hear some thoughts on that.

Oh, I field stripped the gun and launched the recoil guide about 20 feet downrange. Which wouldn't be funny except I found it when the range went cold. Whew.

When I got home I stripped and cleaned the gun and it sure seemed dry. I have to wonder if the last time I cleaned it, I just forgot to lube the slide and barrel lug. That would seem to explain the not going into battery problem. At least it would seem so. I made sure to lube it this time.

Predictably, I lost the Springco instructions. Can someone tell me which way the blue end of the springs goes? I think that's the wider end and goes towards the muzzle, but I could use some confirmation. Or correction.

I have a picture of the bulged and split .40 case if anyone wants me to post it.
 
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First thing on the shooting left there is a good chance you are pulling trigger with tip of finger and pushing left took along time for me to correct that 2nd i believe blue end of spring gos towards frame i could be wrong
 
First thing on the shooting left there is a good chance you are pulling trigger with tip of finger and pushing left took along time for me to correct that 2nd i believe blue end of spring gos towards frame i could be wrong

Thanks. I think the prescription for fixing the shooting left thing is to take my time and be sure of my stance and finger placement.

More shooting, but more slowly until I've trained myself.
 
Still better than a day at work. The 64-6 shot well and my aim was better. I'm thinking of taking off the Ahrends and going back to S&W combats with a Tyler T. That works well on my Model 13.

For the second time I have some of the WWB .38 Spcl rounds fail to fire on the first trigger pull. I had one that failed to fire after five trigger pulls. With the Model 13, that seems to have been the mainspring tension screw. At least I thought so, now I'm wondering about the QC on WWB.

sounds like you had one heck of a day at the range:rolleyes::eek:
 
38 sp i only shoot my own loads i haven't bought a factory round in 25 years and i love Tyler Ts
 
Quite the day GaryS. What kind of grips are on your 457?

I'm going to the range tommorow AM. I'm taking my 457 and a new Sig P245. You know, the gun that BAM-BAM is always going on about. ;) :)

I will take a couple of yellow follower mags with me and see if I have any trouble. I think that failure to feed the last round is indicitive of a weak mag spring. Is the yellow follower very worn? I would start there. Change the mag springs and replace the followers IF they look worn.

Failure to go into battery could be related to a weak recoil spring, bad ammo (WWB is not ammo I like to use to test new to me guns. Too much variation in quality and performance, for me.) or dirt/carbon build up. Dunno.

Anyways, you need to get that fine compact 45 out to the range more often! It needs excercise! ;) Regards 18DAI
 
sounds like you had one heck of a day at the range. :rolleyes: :eek:
Yikes!!! :eek: Quite an understatement I'd say. ;)

I had a pretty darn miserable day too, but not on the range. :o

I guess it's pretty much a standard forum recommendation to replace the recoil spring(s) as soon as you buy a new (used) pistol. I've been reluctant to do that in most cases. I've been rethinking that position lately, mostly due to fear about cracking an aluminum frame... but threads like this one kinda make me want to leave well enough alone and not go looking for trouble unnecessarily. :o
 
Hogue grips. That's how it came and I've never tried to find OEM grips. They're actually pretty comfortable. Also, I've shot much better with this gun and those grips. Which is why today is kind of strange.

I have nothing against Sigs, even though the only one I ever shot was a 2340. Which is not representative of the all metal Sigs.

I might want to invest in some magazines springs. I've never really thought about them because I don't routinely carry the 457. I'll have to inspect the magazines, springs, and followers.

Since it's a new Sprinco set, I'll rule out worn recoil springs.

I'm less than impressed with WWB. I had five failure to fires out of 100 in my 64-6. Then there is the .40SW round that found it's way into the magazine.

Yes, the 457 needs more range time. It might need a friend or two in the same caliber, but those aren't that easy to find up here.

Quite the day GaryS. What kind of grips are on your 457?

I'm going to the range tommorow AM. I'm taking my 457 and a new Sig P245. You know, the gun that BAM-BAM is always going on about. ;) :)

I will take a couple of yellow follower mags with me and see if I have any trouble. I think that failure to feed the last round is indicitive of a weak mag spring. Is the yellow follower very worn? I would start there. Change the mag springs and replace the followers IF they look worn.

Failure to go into battery could be related to a weak recoil spring, bad ammo (WWB is not ammo I like to use to test new to me guns. Too much variation in quality and performance, for me.) or dirt/carbon build up. Dunno.

Anyways, you need to get that fine compact 45 out to the range more often! It needs excercise! ;) Regards 18DAI
 
I suggest re-installing the original recoil spring, lubricating the pistol, and getting some better quality ammo. No comment on the magazine trouble you might be having. Then see if malfunctions happen with a particular magazine.

I have two 457's. Both have all their original springs and function 100%.
 
The 457 has been cleaned and lubricated. I'm going to bring the original recoil to the range with me next time, but I don't think that's the problem. I'm also going to find enough magazine springs to replace what I have with new ones.

I also plan to try different ammunition, but only after I put another 100 or so through the WWB with no change other than cleaning the gun and pulling different magazines out of the cabinet.

I've always found it counter productive to change too many variables at once when trouble shooting a car, electronic, of firearms problem.
 
Whew, thankfully that didn't get to exciting! :)

Don't know if its the same problem your having but I was shooting left with the compacts until I used the first joint for both the DA and SA pulls. :confused:
 
Wolff has a +5% spring for the S&W 45s. A ten pack is about $55.00 with shipping. I ordered that and tested the springs in my 12 magazines. Not a scientific test, I just pushed down on the following and guesstimated the tension. One of the yellow followers was very "squishy" compared to the rest. I put aside three that took a lot of pressure to push down and will replace the rest.

I'm going to have to really work on finger placement and hold and see if that helps the shooting left.




Whew, thankfully that didn't get to exciting! :)

Don't know if its the same problem your having but I was shooting left with the compacts until I used the first joint for both the DA and SA pulls. :confused:
 
Hi GaryS,

OK, 48 rounds through my clean and lubed 457 using older mags with the yellow followers. Both followers show a fair degree of wear. But these are my range only mags.

No stoppages. Is your 457 lubed with synthetic grease?

Shot the Sig P245 too. Nice gun, but I recalled why I rejected it back in the day. Unpleasant to shoot, for me. But I can see why BAM-BAM likes it. Me, I'm taking Advil for my aching hand. ;) Regards 18DAI
 
I use Lubriplate 105 for grease. It gets good reviews and in addition to engine assembly lube has a lot of other uses, including firearms.

Hi GaryS,

OK, 48 rounds through my clean and lubed 457 using older mags with the yellow followers. Both followers show a fair degree of wear. But these are my range only mags.

No stoppages. Is your 457 lubed with synthetic grease?

Shot the Sig P245 too. Nice gun, but I recalled why I rejected it back in the day. Unpleasant to shoot, for me. But I can see why BAM-BAM likes it. Me, I'm taking Advil for my aching hand. ;) Regards 18DAI
 
Accuracy and ammo

I shoot 9mm and 45ACP pistols far more than my various revolvers. The low/left thing is something I have to work on, as well. Your first shot and mine from the 457 were the same: 10 ring bull. These are amazing little 45's. I'm going to shoot a comparison between my 4513TSW, 457S, and newly arrived 4516 next week. I know the 457 will hold its own.
Ammo - I use WWB and Blazer FMJ for function testing and other drills and don't get too wrapped up with accuracy. I've got some supremely accurate 9mm's for example that I was getting a little frustrated with until I started feeding them some high quality ammo. I haven't started loading my own - hope to later this year. It's painful, I know, to be shooting SD and Match ammo that's going for almost a buck a round - but I do it to understand how a pistol and I are going to perform together where shot placement may be critical... Just my 2 cents...
 
I guess it's pretty much a standard forum recommendation to replace the recoil spring(s) as soon as you buy a new (used) pistol. I've been reluctant to do that in most cases. I've been rethinking that position lately, mostly due to fear about cracking an aluminum frame... but threads like this one kinda make me want to leave well enough alone and not go looking for trouble unnecessarily. :o

I've found that there is no need to replace anything until it shows signs of needing to be replaced. All my used guns, including ex police guns are still running on original springs. Most people don't do that much shooting. And when they do they tend to bring multiple guns. So while the round count may be high, individually the guns were shot little. The other reason I don't like changing springs right away is because I first want to see how it shoots as is. There maybe a problem and if I'm replacing parts then I don't know if it's my fault or faulty when I got it
 
I shoot for comfort and minute of bad guy (9" paper plate) accuracy. At worst if I'm low and left on shooting at center mass, I'll destroy the bad man's liver. ;)

I'd just like a bit more consistency in getting on the middle of the plate. The first found (DA) accuracy is nice, but I'd like to do it consistently.

BTW, I did the exact same thing with the Model 64-6 at 25 feet. Right in the middle of the plate.

I'll make another trip to the range with the 457 sometime this week.

The WWB is okay for target fodder. I also have some Federal and UMC 45, so I'll mix it up a bit.

Maybe the 457 and the 3" Model 13. Or one of my 3rd Gen guns. Maybe even the Bersa Thunder 380CC.

Decisions, decisions... :D


I shoot 9mm and 45ACP pistols far more than my various revolvers. The low/left thing is something I have to work on, as well. Your first shot and mine from the 457 were the same: 10 ring bull. These are amazing little 45's. I'm going to shoot a comparison between my 4513TSW, 457S, and newly arrived 4516 next week. I know the 457 will hold its own.
Ammo - I use WWB and Blazer FMJ for function testing and other drills and don't get too wrapped up with accuracy. I've got some supremely accurate 9mm's for example that I was getting a little frustrated with until I started feeding them some high quality ammo. I haven't started loading my own - hope to later this year. It's painful, I know, to be shooting SD and Match ammo that's going for almost a buck a round - but I do it to understand how a pistol and I are going to perform together where shot placement may be critical... Just my 2 cents...
 
I have a couple hundred more rounds of WWB in 9mm ,115gr. to shoot up and when it's gone...no way no how....barring another shortage....will I buy anymore....never did use any in .45....mostly Remington and Aguilla....I know I know but it works for me:D.....I too did low and left with my 4516-2...at first but have made myself more disciplined in my grip....and the flatwire Glock spring that replaces the nested springs , that BMCM pioneered has worked flawless and see no need to change;)
 
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