Does a .45acp JHP expand in tests ?
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.45acp JHP
- Thread starter jimmyj
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I hope not. From experience, I know the .45 ACP needs all the penetration it can get. That's why I always use 230 grain FMJ.
Delta Rose
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The .45 ACP fires a heavy bullet. The heavier the bullet, the more difficult it is to get it up to a respectable velocity. For this reason, both my .45s have at least a four-inch barrel. I avoid miniaturized .45s like the plague.
Assuming factory published velocities are achieved, much depends on the material and structure used on the bullet and exactly what it hits against a human target. Bone impact will more likely cause expansion. However, if the hollow point becomes clogged with clothing material such as leather or denim, it may not expand at all and will behave like an FMJ. Also, as ranges increase, the .45 ACP tends to shed velocity and will not be as effective at the outer limits of its range as it would be at more typical combat distances within seven yards or so.
Assuming factory published velocities are achieved, much depends on the material and structure used on the bullet and exactly what it hits against a human target. Bone impact will more likely cause expansion. However, if the hollow point becomes clogged with clothing material such as leather or denim, it may not expand at all and will behave like an FMJ. Also, as ranges increase, the .45 ACP tends to shed velocity and will not be as effective at the outer limits of its range as it would be at more typical combat distances within seven yards or so.
ContinentalOp
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Yes. A good .45ACP JHP like HST or Gold Dot will give good expansion and penetration.
double-dipper
Member
jimmyj, Yes Delta Rose beat me to it. There is a lot of good info on Lucky Gunner.
The Sierra 230 gr. JHP is really impressive at 850 f/s. Penetration good enough.
If you go to the law enforcement section of the various ammo makers websites, you can usually find the gelatin test result. Sometimes, that's restricted information. Federal/Speer used to have it. I quit worrying about it.
If you go to the law enforcement section of the various ammo makers websites, you can usually find the gelatin test result. Sometimes, that's restricted information. Federal/Speer used to have it. I quit worrying about it.
SixGunSancho
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230 Grain Federal HST LE +P.
I have carried a 1911-A1 loaded with 230 grain W-W White Box ball and never felt the lest bit slighted.
Velocity does not definitively indicate expansion. Expansion is a function of bullet design.
I will not rely upon bullet expansion displayed as perfect mushrooms in manufacturers' pretty ads. If I were to get expansion, I'd be good. But I wouldn't rely upon it.
I have had big game guides tell me that they did not like all copper bullets because they failed to expand at big game cartridge velocities. They called them pencil hole bullets.
I've yet to experience a Nosler Partition and Sierra GameKing expansion failure.
I have carried a 1911-A1 loaded with 230 grain W-W White Box ball and never felt the lest bit slighted.
Velocity does not definitively indicate expansion. Expansion is a function of bullet design.
I will not rely upon bullet expansion displayed as perfect mushrooms in manufacturers' pretty ads. If I were to get expansion, I'd be good. But I wouldn't rely upon it.
I have had big game guides tell me that they did not like all copper bullets because they failed to expand at big game cartridge velocities. They called them pencil hole bullets.
I've yet to experience a Nosler Partition and Sierra GameKing expansion failure.
Marshal Tom
Member
Yes! I carried a custom 1911 for many years while an LE and always carried a top quality JHP and still do. The HST is one of the best as stated above. I find no reason to carry hardball in lieu of a modern JHP in .45. They work Well.
I worked in LE for over 40 years and attended hundreds of autopsies, investigated shootings and personally witnessed many violent deaths. I also worked as a firearm instructor, studied ballistics for our agency ammo use, and attended ballistic demonstrations testing and comparing handgun bullet performance. I believe our current heavy 45 expanding bullets have excellent penetration in addition to expanding very well. A jacketed hardball round is early 1900 technology and a shooter choosing this bullet is handicapping the abilities of their equipment. Bullet technology has increased greatly during these last 40 years and many newer technology bullets expand, retain mass, and penetrate very well. I am not personally aware of a heavy expanding 45 bullet which had inadequate penetration. I saw a larger number of smaller caliber hardball rounds in use since most people don't carry a 45 and many of those did not perform or penetrate as people anticipated. I am trying to express my experiences without being graphic and I am not listing specific instances which would be more revealing.
I don't know it all and please don't take this short paragraph of my experience in the wrong light. We all have our opinions and are free to use what we feel is best for the situation. I consider myself a "45 guy" and carried one for work for the majority of my career but I would not handicap myself with a light weight bullet or a hardball round.
Best wishes to all forum members as we approach another year where we can continue to learn and enjoy our shooting sports.
I don't know it all and please don't take this short paragraph of my experience in the wrong light. We all have our opinions and are free to use what we feel is best for the situation. I consider myself a "45 guy" and carried one for work for the majority of my career but I would not handicap myself with a light weight bullet or a hardball round.
Best wishes to all forum members as we approach another year where we can continue to learn and enjoy our shooting sports.
I've seen .45 ACP bullets that actually killed people. Expansion is iffy and they typically just look beat up. That is, the ones that stick around. Mostly they go through-and-through.
This is true of all handgun rounds, by the way.
Load with 230 grain FMJ for self-protection. The Modern Hollow-Point Bullet cartridge just makes a bigger hole in your wallet, not the bad guy,.
This is true of all handgun rounds, by the way.
Load with 230 grain FMJ for self-protection. The Modern Hollow-Point Bullet cartridge just makes a bigger hole in your wallet, not the bad guy,.
Jimmy, I can't speak from personal experience. However, back in the late '70s into the '90s while Speer was marketing their "flying ashtrays" (200gr JHP) they touted the expansion performance of that bullet in their "Lawman" ammo product line.
boatbum101
Member
IMHO from a Gov't size pistol any of the LE JHP 230gr works . Rather or not one goes +P doesn't make much difference looking at gel tests results . Fed HST LE , Speer GD LE or Rem GS LE . Commander size I use std press 230 JHP from one of the above .
Old Corp
Member
Don't know why, but this jogged some memories for me....
I recall in the 1970's when there really were not ANY reliably expanding JHP's for the .45 ACP.
IIRC, one of the very first was Norma, with a 190 gr JHP, and it was sort of a 'truncated ogive' to help with feeding issues. Sorta recall a George Nonte article where he went to a hunting preserve and shot a not-large Black Bear with that load. Yes, it caused the demise of the bear, but I seem to recall the recovered bullet(s) showed very little expansion. The jacket on those early Norma bullets was evidently pretty stout.
Within a year or two, more and more JHP's started showing up as component bullets and ammo, but if you really wanted semi-reliable expansion you still had to drop bullet weight, like 185 to 200 gr. stuff, and run them hard.
The Speer 200 gr 'flying ashtray' was much sought after, but still had to be driven pretty hard to work.
I recall actually pulling some Winchester 185 gr Silvertip JHP's (not available as a component at the time) and loading them pretty hot.
I shot a deer at about 15 yards and upon recovery and retrieving the bullet, was quite disappointed. Cavity plugged with hair and fat and almost no expansion. Never felt the same about .45 Silvertips after that.
All defensive handgun bullets have come a long way.
Agency that I retired from is in it's ~20th year of using the .45 Speer 230 gr Gold Dot, and it's performance has been very effective and reliable, with reports of near-perfect expansion and stops.
I recall in the 1970's when there really were not ANY reliably expanding JHP's for the .45 ACP.
IIRC, one of the very first was Norma, with a 190 gr JHP, and it was sort of a 'truncated ogive' to help with feeding issues. Sorta recall a George Nonte article where he went to a hunting preserve and shot a not-large Black Bear with that load. Yes, it caused the demise of the bear, but I seem to recall the recovered bullet(s) showed very little expansion. The jacket on those early Norma bullets was evidently pretty stout.
Within a year or two, more and more JHP's started showing up as component bullets and ammo, but if you really wanted semi-reliable expansion you still had to drop bullet weight, like 185 to 200 gr. stuff, and run them hard.
The Speer 200 gr 'flying ashtray' was much sought after, but still had to be driven pretty hard to work.
I recall actually pulling some Winchester 185 gr Silvertip JHP's (not available as a component at the time) and loading them pretty hot.
I shot a deer at about 15 yards and upon recovery and retrieving the bullet, was quite disappointed. Cavity plugged with hair and fat and almost no expansion. Never felt the same about .45 Silvertips after that.
All defensive handgun bullets have come a long way.
Agency that I retired from is in it's ~20th year of using the .45 Speer 230 gr Gold Dot, and it's performance has been very effective and reliable, with reports of near-perfect expansion and stops.
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
Lots of good .45 ACP JHPs will expand and penetrate. I carried 230 grain Hydra Shoks first, then 230 grain Golden Sabres. They worked as advertised.
If you put the tests in a good, solid rack and soak them in water it should expand just fine.
Clear ballistic gel does not perform the same as organic gel so take these results with a grain of salt.
rockquarry
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I seldom shoot any factory ammo, but over the years have accumulated a good bit of various commercial .45 ACP loads, including several hollow point versions. In with those are Super Vel 190 grain HP and the Speer "Lawman" 200 grain HP. That has an unbelievably huge HP; never seen anything else like it, but maybe there is some modern ammo with the equivalent nose cavity or even something greater.
Perhaps jello testing means something, but, if I was to choose a commercial .45 round for whatever purpose, I'd try try at least four or five and go with the one that was most accurate and easiest for me to shoot well, even if it was the 230 FMJ. I doubt you could go too far wrong with any .45 ACP load.
Perhaps jello testing means something, but, if I was to choose a commercial .45 round for whatever purpose, I'd try try at least four or five and go with the one that was most accurate and easiest for me to shoot well, even if it was the 230 FMJ. I doubt you could go too far wrong with any .45 ACP load.
Echo40
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I'm a big fan of the Hornady XTP bullet design in just about every handgun cartridge. It just seems to strike the perfect balance between penetration and expansion, providing deep penetration with moderate expansion.
Just take a look at this chart, it's very helpful for selecting self-defense ammo, and as you can see, all of the 200gr XTP loads penetrate to 18" and expand to at least .54, you can't get any closer to perfect than that.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP
Just take a look at this chart, it's very helpful for selecting self-defense ammo, and as you can see, all of the 200gr XTP loads penetrate to 18" and expand to at least .54, you can't get any closer to perfect than that.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP
