.45acp reloading COL questions

[Harley Fan]

I'm a new shooter, and a new reloader. First reloading with a Lee loader for .38 sp then moving to a single stage press, then to a turret press. Over the last year I've developed several loads in both .38 special and .357 mag. Always considering the limitations of powder availability, it's been fun to develop loads I'm pleased with.

Recently, my son bought a Glock in .45acp, and we added dies for that. We've gone through 500 or so rounds, judging by the primer and bullet supply.

Well, a Smith revolver guy myself, I find myself the proud owner of a never fired Colt M1991 Ser 80 .45. Thus far, I've had it to the range twice, getting familiar with it. (Quite a departure from my 686-2) I've put 150 rounds of factory 230 gr. ball through it, and I've worked up several different starting loads using the powder I have available. (Sorry this is taking so long)

When reloading, I've always followed to the letter COL heights, exercised caution on quality control, etc. So when I started loading for the son's Glock, the powder I have (IMR-PB, Tite Group, 700-X) my Lyman 49 lists COL at 1.200"

Aaron's Glock eats everything you feed it.

Well, Sunday, I encountered a feed failure in my Colt. I ejected it on the floor, kicked it down the range and went on. It was a start load with IMR-PB, and I noted the other 5 rounds had significantly less recoil.

This was the only failure. But as I thought this over after the range visit, I'm stunned at the disparity on COL for 230 gr. ball in .45. The book says 1.275" max... and for the powders I have, using 230 gr. LRN, it lists 1.200" COL, a whopping .075" shorter!

I'm out of factory rounds, so I pressed two dummy rounds together, one at max, the other at 1.200".



I got a magazine out and put the ball end where it might be in the pistol. sorry for the crappy photography.

The first is a cartridge imitating a factory round, measuring 1.270". The second one is the 1.200" one, forward to the nose, where it might ride. The cartridge body is 1/3 out of the feed lips!





My questions:

1) Can these short cartridges cause a problem with feeding in a 1911? Or might have my lone failure been a wimpy loading? (Note that I was most satisfied with a 700-X load of 4.8 gr- right in the middle.)

2) I always reach for Lyman 49. It's where I got the 1.200" COL. But I have a Lee Modern Reloading, whose chart says "MIN OAL 1.200".

I measured the depth of a cartridge, then figured the cylinder where the powder goes. From 1.275" to 1.200" is a whopping 18% difference! What would happen if I loaded my favorite loading of 4.8 gr. of 700-X to a COL closer to 1.275" so these cartridges fit better in the Colt mag?

Thanks to all of you who got this far on this post!

 

[Harley Fan]

I'm loving this 1911, BTW...

 

[rsrocket1]

1.275 is the common COL for 230g roundball 45ACP. If those long rounds are feeding fine and the exposed shoulder isn't causing hangups while feeding, I would load them to that length. It may be that the short rounds are shifting forward in the magazine which could cause feed problems.

Alliant lists their COL's, but those are the minimum safe lengths and they typically list maximum safe loads so every load database is different. Look in your manual to see if their COL's are "minimum safe lengths" or "recommended lengths".

 

[Collo Rosso]

I've been loading 230gr. RN plated to 1.250" OAL. At this length I've had no problems in any magazines or 1911's.
The loading manuals I have list minimum OAL all over the place starting at 1.200". I have 1 reference to 1.270" as a maximum OAL and all others at 1.275" OAL.

 

[Engineer1911]

After 100,000 rounds of 45 ACP (home cast bullets are really cheap -- think $5 per thousand), my suggestion is COL = 1.250" . You want the "front shoulder" of what ever bullet you are loading to show above the case mouth about 0.015" to 0.020" . The reason is that is what works.

Buy a new Shooting Star 45 ACP mag and the instructions say 1) use an H&G #68 style SWC (long nose), 2) load COL = 1.250" , 3) taper crimp diameter = 0.469" measured at the case mouth.

The best taper crimp is achieved with a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. Again why? Because it works in 12+ different 1911 45 ACP semi-autos that I own. Included are two hand fit, custom built Bullseye target guns, 3 Colt Gold cups, a Remington R1, Rock Island Target Match, Kimber, and 3 Para Ordnance, ands a few others.

I probably have 7 different brands of mags and they all work with my reloads. Empty brass ejects from my guns about 12" to 16" with full length recoil rod with a recoil buffer. Recoil spring weight varies from 12# to 22# depending on load and gun.

 

[Harley Fan]

After 100,000 rounds of 45 ACP (home cast bullets are really cheap -- think $5 per thousand), my suggestion is COL = 1.250" . You want the "front shoulder" of what ever bullet you are loading to show above the case mouth about 0.015" to 0.020" . The reason is that is what works.

Buy a new Shooting Star 45 ACP mag and the instructions say 1) use an H&G #68 style SWC (long nose), 2) load COL = 1.250" , 3) taper crimp diameter = 0.469" measured at the case mouth.

The best taper crimp is achieved with a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. Again why? Because it works in 12+ different 1911 45 ACP semi-autos that I own. Included are two hand fit, custom built Bullseye target guns, 3 Colt Gold cups, a Remington R1, Rock Island Target Match, Kimber, and 3 Para Ordnance, ands a few others.

I probably have 7 different brands of mags and they all work with my reloads. Empty brass ejects from my guns about 12" to 16" with full length recoil rod with a recoil buffer. Recoil spring weight varies from 12# to 22# depending on lad and gun.

Appreciate this, Engineer1911... and I ordered the Lee factory crimp die last night.

 

[scooter123]

Another vote for a COL of 1.250 inch, it's what I've been loading my 230 grain RN Plated bullets to and I've never had a misfeed at this length.

 

[Arkie45]

Another vote for a COL of 1.250 inch, it's what I've been loading my 230 grain RN Plated bullets to and I've never had a misfeed at this length.

+1...same here! Literally thousands with no issue in any of my 45's. The Lee factory crimp is a great addition.

 

[Rule3]

The COL depends on theexact bullet you use. From your picture it is a standard LRN a rule of thumb is a finger nail width of the driving band as in your picture on the left.

The correct way is to use your barrel and do a plunk test. drop the dummy round into the barrel. It should plunk in and when turned over it should fall out. Seat the bullet use a light crimp only enough to remove the bell or flare.

I use a COL of 1.250 to 1.270 depending on the gun barrel and the make of bullet.

This topic comes up a lot, or should I say this question.
Quote:
Why won't my reloads chamber?
A short throat is sometimes the culprit. Too long an O.A.L. is sometimes the problem, even with barrels with average throats.

This pic is often used to help explain correct headspacing and how O.A.L. can affect chambering and headspace.

 

[fredj338]

New reloaders make oal too hard. Forget the data, seriously, it's just a Guide, especially with lead bullets. There must be 30 diff 230gr LRN, all will have slightly diff oal. Lyman oal is valid with that specific bullet.
So you use the longet oal that your gun will function with, regardless of the data. As long as you are not pushing max loads, it isn't going to have that much affect. Pushing max loads, everything matters, but you should be working up to those anyway.

 

[Frank46]

This may sound wacky but try the plunk test. Seat a bullet a little longer than normal and after taking the barrel out of your 45 drop the round into the chamber. Now look at the base of the round in the relation to the hood on your barrel. If the base is past the hood your round is too long. If it is past the hood and more into the chamber then it is too long. What you want is a loaded round just slightly past the edge of the hood. This will give about .014 to 020 thousandths of the shoulder of the lead bullet sticking out of the case. I've loaded many rounds this way for two 45's one a 1943 Ithaca and the other a tricked out Springfield armory. Hope this helps. Frank

 

[SMSgt]

Stop taking published COL data as gospel. Published COLs are for the masses and seldom give best performance in an individual gun.

Establish a COL that fits the mag, Feeds, and chambers correctly (the Plunk test will help establish that) and go with that.

Judging from your photo, with my guns, one round is too long, the other too short. The driving band should never be inside the case mouth--flush or slightly exposed, either feeds fine in my Glock or 3rd Gens.

 

[Harley Fan]

Appreciate all the comments. And I'm "eyes wide open" going forward.

I pressed the bullet in the dummy cartridge to 1.250" and the ring shoulder on the lead bullet is .040" above this case mouth. It mic's .469 dia, but it should... it's been crimped multiple times.

I've plunked a great many of these earlier rounds to my satisfaction, but they've been to the short COL dimension. And I'll load and inspect/plunk another batch when I receive my factory crimp die.

I've been riding motorcycles for over 40 years (even surviving my 20's ) and every time I throw a leg over, I realize that while I have fun, this ol' Superglide of mine can bite. I've taken that tact when I started reloading for revolvers. I never had occasion to doubt, or to dispute published load or COL data. And as a result, followed the .45acp stuff right out the door.

Again, appreciate the words!

 

[ChiefStealth]

Yep. Different bullets... could be different OAL. I used some bulk Win. 230gn RN jacketed. They shot fine at 1.260. I used some Rainier 230gn RN plated. Had to get them down to 1.245. Lately, I've been using Xtreme 230gn RN plated. No-go at 1.260. Work just fine at 1.250.

 

[SMSgt]

I pressed the bullet in the dummy cartridge to 1.250" and the ring shoulder on the lead bullet is .040" above this case mouth. It mic's .469 dia, but it should... it's been crimped multiple times.

All my .45 lead reloads measure .472+/- .001 at the case mouth. They work fine. What works for you, works for you. Try not to get hung up on specific numbers as each gun has its own peculiarities as far as ammo.

 

[Harley Fan]

Well, I got back to the range with 100 rounds, to evaluate "middle-of-the-road" loading using two different powders, 700-X and Tite Group.

I loaded these with the addition of a Lee factory crimp and sizing die in the 4th turret, and my bullet COL set at 1.250".I also "plunk tested" 100%.

Great success! No issues with failure to load. 100 rounds isn't a huge sample size, but it is a brand new firearm.

Very happy! Now I gotta learn the sights on this mule.

 

[franx1911a]

Sorry to revive such an old thread but it seems appropriate to the problems I am having now. I recently loaded up 1000 rounds of 230gr plated (Rocky Mtn Reloading, extra heavy plating) and am having problems with the rounds chambering in multiple guns. When the problems happened in my trusty 1911 that will even chamber empty cases, swc, everything I have ever loaded, I knew there was a problem. My OAL is right at 1.240, apparently my die moved a little bit. Normally I prefer to run about 1.260. I use a Lee factory crimp die as my final step in reloading. Is that .020 really causing me to have nose up type feeding problems in multiple guns?
Already dreading having to pull about 950 rounds...

 

[Vortec MAX]

I too use 1.250" OAL for my 230 GR RN plated bullets. They all work perfectly for me.

Mike

 

[Magload]

Appreciate all the comments. And I'm "eyes wide open" going forward.

I pressed the bullet in the dummy cartridge to 1.250" and the ring shoulder on the lead bullet is .040" above this case mouth. It mic's .469 dia, but it should... it's been crimped multiple times.

I've plunked a great many of these earlier rounds to my satisfaction, but they've been to the short COL dimension. And I'll load and inspect/plunk another batch when I receive my factory crimp die.

I've been riding motorcycles for over 40 years (even surviving my 20's ) and every time I throw a leg over, I realize that while I have fun, this ol' Superglide of mine can bite. I've taken that tact when I started reloading for revolvers. I never had occasion to doubt, or to dispute published load or COL data. And as a result, followed the .45acp stuff right out the door.

Again, appreciate the words!

Same with my Superglide Custom alway need to be paying attention to detail. Don

 

[rwsmith]

I just had a big long thread.....

I just had a long discussion because I've reloaded for my full size 9mm and never had a problem. I got two compact pistols and now nothing works. I spent a week making the OALs shorter and shorter until all ammo works in all barrels. I'm tempted to get somebody to ream the leades because now I have little range to work in and I don't have recipes for such short OALs. I just have to reduce the load. A chrono would help, but I'm not into the hassle of taking it to an outdoor range (almost an hour away) and the probs that people have getting them to work right. I'd really like to just have some recipes slightly over 1" OAL.