5 Screw .38 Pre-15 CM stocks with unusual notch

[Jocko-44]

Good Morning all, last week I made a post about possibly purchasing a 5 Screw Pre-15 .38 Combat Masterpiece. Opinions varied if it was worth the asking price, but I decided what the heck and bought it anyway! I was wondering if the experts have ever seen stocks like these before. I have never seen anything like them before, but I'm clearly a newbie. Seems to be a professional "notch" not something an average Joe would do in the basement. Thanks for the help!

 

[Jocko-44]

Serial Number starts with 118,xxx if that helps. Pretty good shape for its age, definitely not perfect. I'm glad I bought it! Does 1951 birth year sound correct? Thanks

 

[Muley Gil]

Those stocks were modified outside of the factory.

Your serial number starts with "K".

 

[Jocko-44]

^^ Correct! I forgot the K, lol

 

[JP@AK]

K118xxx likely did ship in 1951. An example is a .38 Combat Masterpiece, serialized at K118332, that shipped in October 1951.

If yours had shipped with target stocks at that time (which is unlikely) they would have been the non-relieved type. Those shown in your pictures have been modified. There were some experimental target stocks made by S&W in the mid-1950s with a similar modification, but I don't believe the pair you have are among them.

 

[sceva]

Someone (Not S&W) modified the grips for ejection clearance. Nicely done too.

 

[Jocko-44]

When the gun was for sale on Cabelas website, they has the serial number listed as M 43078. That is the number listed inside on the yoke. Probably a kid that just started that week, lol

 

[Ga Johnny]

Guys, I believe the OP is asking about the half circle notch in the inside front of the grips.....'least that's how I read it. I've seen vintage OE grips notched like that, it lines up with the strain screw IIRC, not sure why but I think I've seen before

 

[Jocko-44]

Guys, I believe the OP is asking about the half circle notch in the inside front of the grips.....'least that's how I read it. I've seen vintage OE grips notched like that, it lines up with the strain screw IIRC, not sure why but I think I've seen before

No, I'm asking about the big cut on the outside of left hand stock. I never noticed the little half circle. Interesting, thanks!

 

[Buford57]

Someone (Not S&W) modified the grips for ejection clearance. Nicely done too.

I concur. Well executed but not factory. The ejector would gouge target grips which used briskly, which led to the football cutout. Even those did not play well with speedloaders, resulting in the next modification.

 

[silicosys4]

someone wanted their strain screw backed out for a lighter DA pull

 

[Jocko-44]

I concur. Well executed but not factory. The ejector would gouge target grips which used briskly, which led to the football cutout. Even those did not play well with speedloaders, resulting in the next modification.

How bad does this affect the overall value of the gun?

 

[Ga Johnny]

Oh.......well dang I woulda thought that was obviously not factory

 

[glowe]

For me, that modification would stop me from buying them at any price. Reduce the value by at least half.

Added: let me clarify that the observation is made about about the stocks only, which in my opinion would drop the price of the gun by the cost of a replacement set of the stocks, at maybe $200 - $300. I try to collect only factory original guns and if not I would work to return the gun to original configuration. That modification would make it an altered CM for me. Also agree that the gun and probably the vast majority of Masterpiece and CMs left the factory with Magnas.

 

[Jocko-44]

Is this a Target Hammer? Would it have came from the factory like this? Thanks for all the help!

 

[JP@AK]

Is this a Target Hammer? Would it have came from the factory like this?

In 1951, the target hammer was available, so yes, it is possible the hammer is original. If you were to request a letter, the shipping records might indicate whether it had a target hammer. You could ask this specifically when you send in your letter request. Letters currently sell for $100, so you may not have enough curiosity to justify it, but that is up to you.

glowe wrote:

For me, that modification would stop me from buying them at any price. Reduce the value by at least half.

90% of the time or more, Gary and I agree. In this case, I'm not sure. If he is referring only to the stocks, then I'm with him. However, I don't think these modified stocks, coming with the gun, would reduce the price of the gun by half. It certainly would not for me. I tend to doubt that is what Gary meant. Perhaps he will clarify.

I will also reiterate what I wrote previously. It is highly unlikely that your .38 Combat Masterpiece left the factory with target stocks. It almost certainly shipped with the standard Magna stocks of that period (diamond center, sharp shoulder Magna).

 

[Green Frog]

I too hope that Gary is referring to the value of the grips rather than the gun. IMHO, that gun without grips wouldn’t lose half of its value. YMMV.

 

[50 target]

Nice CM. Those stocks wouldn't bother me one whit. Nicely done.

 

[Engine49guy]

A few thoughts,
Early non releived target stocks were usually relieved inside just in front above the strain screw.
Iirc it wasnt the ejector star that struck the stocks it was the case heads but will have to double check that later, either way it left dents in the stocks and many people with OCD (like me) sanded those dents down, while it is a sin today back then the stocks were cheap and available, when rubber Pachmayers were in fasion in the 1980's-90's it wasn't uncommon to see a small box of factory SW wood stocks for $5 / pair at the cash register of small gunshops.
Modified wood stocks have some value to someone but not to most purist collectors.

The football relief cut seems to appear with the introduction of the Combat Magnum in 1956, coincidentally .357 cases are longer than .38 special requiring them to be pushed further back to clear the cylinder so don't think it's a coincidence.
While the wide target hammer, target trigger were available options on the Combat Masterpiece on special order I'd suspect the majority of them were purchased afterwards and installed outside the factory.

 

[Truckman]

While the wide target hammer, target trigger were available options on the Combat Masterpiece on special order I'd suspect the majority of them were purchased afterwards and installed outside the factory.

I would say the great majority...I only have two in my accumulation with the three T's, and only one that I can verify by letter as original...The other awaits its turn to arrive on Don's desk...This one, a Model 15 ND, letters as all original...But take heart, there were 9 more just like it in the same shipment if you can find them before I do......Ben