For what it's worth the seller had his information several years before this thread was started
James
Sorry James, your description was right on and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Bob
5906 "Super 9" Information
- Thread starter skjos
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Sorry James, your description was right on and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Bob
handgunner356
Member
The major power factor for IPSC/USPSA back in the day was 175pf. Which is well over stock SAAMI spec .38 Super and 9mm loads. Enough problems came up to where you had terms such as ".38 Super face" when a 1911 extractor came out your way. It was tough on stock guns so S&W did the right thing to develope and gun and cartridge that would handle the pressure of such a load. But that left a lot of guns out there that wouldn't, so the easy fix was to only allow it in Open Class where there were mostly all custom built guns. Then make Limited Class .40cal and up for major and anything under score only minor at the 125pf. They have since gone down to 165pf for major and you are now seeing 9mm major in Open Class. I think S&W missed the boat when they didn't pursue more of a LE market for the .356TSW, easily surpass the .357sig and would give them the high capacity they were looking for, coulda, woulda, shoulda.
A recent thread on a SD 356 TSW had some additional information on International Super 9, I have updated the original thread with this information.
It was thought there were around 250 - 660 International Super 9s, the production letter now confirms the number to be 166 (+5 TDU serial numbers).
A rare pistol indeed.
It was thought there were around 250 - 660 International Super 9s, the production letter now confirms the number to be 166 (+5 TDU serial numbers).
A rare pistol indeed.
I had an opportunity to buy one of these and passed, since I had a set of 3566TSWs from the PC. I could not anticipate rarity factors as I was a shooter…bullseye, IPSC, GSSF, etc. I figured that I needed a 9x21 like a whole-in-the-head, since a 9x21.5 was better…I also had a .38 Super…
Shame on me!
Here are my 356TSWs….5-in-all !!!!!!
Shame on me!
Here are my 356TSWs….5-in-all !!!!!!
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I have a Super 9 with the 3 barrels.
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1775usmarine
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I thought I had died and went to heaven when I seen this thread. I had to check my pulse to make sure I was still good. I would love to get my hands on one but the wife would kill me.
I was told that these were made in the S & W custom shop ?? , not the Performance Center.
Sweet letter and included flyer.
The serial number range is a little different than another letter that involved the Super 9, (MSF6838-7003) vs (MSF6838-7008), but in any case only around 70 of the 3-barrel pistols exist within the borders of the US.
I will be updating the original post with this new information.
Thanks
Lewieke
Member
I joined this community since I wish to find out more about the 'super9' model. Someone just offered me a model9 with 3 barrels in a spotless condition. The thing that worries me is that I do not seem to be able to source TSW.356 amo in Europe. Please note that regulations for firearms are pretty strict over here. The price at which the gun was offered to me sounds like a bargain. What do you think ?
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Others here know more than I do and they will have better information than I do. They may correct any mistaken information I post.
Here in the States, the factories have not made 356TSW ammunition for a very long time; and any remaining factory made 356TSW ammunition is too rare and valuable to shoot. It was a great round for IPSC competition and self defense. The prejudice against it in IPSC was too much. And it was poorly marketed for self defense and never became popular.
Here in the U.S., anyone desiring to shoot 356TSW has to hand load. Your three barrel model was made for Europe and we have too few of them here.
The three barrel Super 9 should be a sweet example of older technology and still be able to hold its' own against newer technology. Where I live, the government considers the frame to be the restricted (or controlled) part of the handgun - a three barrel auto loading pistol is desirable.
I would want to buy that Super 9, but I am basically unable to find one. And 9X19 is the most readily available factory ammo here, 9X21 is available, and 356TSW is a handload only proposition. My only realistic option (for multiple caliber auto loading pistols) is to buy Glock, Sig, or S&W M&P's.
A good Magnum revolver still retains an advantage in being able to shoot different rounds and a tremendous flexibility of power.
I would use a Super 9 (3 barrel) if I could find one and also buy factory loaded 356TSW ammo for carry. Other realistic options include 9X23 and 357Sig.
Best wishes.
Here in the States, the factories have not made 356TSW ammunition for a very long time; and any remaining factory made 356TSW ammunition is too rare and valuable to shoot. It was a great round for IPSC competition and self defense. The prejudice against it in IPSC was too much. And it was poorly marketed for self defense and never became popular.
Here in the U.S., anyone desiring to shoot 356TSW has to hand load. Your three barrel model was made for Europe and we have too few of them here.
The three barrel Super 9 should be a sweet example of older technology and still be able to hold its' own against newer technology. Where I live, the government considers the frame to be the restricted (or controlled) part of the handgun - a three barrel auto loading pistol is desirable.
I would want to buy that Super 9, but I am basically unable to find one. And 9X19 is the most readily available factory ammo here, 9X21 is available, and 356TSW is a handload only proposition. My only realistic option (for multiple caliber auto loading pistols) is to buy Glock, Sig, or S&W M&P's.
A good Magnum revolver still retains an advantage in being able to shoot different rounds and a tremendous flexibility of power.
I would use a Super 9 (3 barrel) if I could find one and also buy factory loaded 356TSW ammo for carry. Other realistic options include 9X23 and 357Sig.
Best wishes.
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If I remember correctly, former employees have shared information & experience that both standard production and Performance Center versions were made. (The custom shop is the Performance Center.)
Unfortunately, I believe many of those posts and threadswere lost when the forum was hacked some years ago.
Lewieke
Member
Thank you for your quick reply. This means I would not be ripped off if I could purchase the Super9 for about 500$. The ammo 9x19 is easily available and pretty cheap (I buy the czech S&B 9x19 FMJ). 9x21 is also easy to get. In addition to my question, is there a way to get the reloading material for this TSW .356 (I'm primarily thinking of empty shells).
vigil617
US Veteran
Lewieke,
Obtaining a Super 9 at a price equal to $500 American is an outrageously good deal. One of these with the three barrels sold over here at auction not long ago for almost $3,000!
While it is true that many shooters (of the very few that own 356TSW pistols, which include six semi-auto models and one revolver) do hand-load their ammunition, factory ammo is still available through online auctions or from places like this Forum where Smith enthusiasts gather. There is an ad right now in the classified section offering to sell 356TSW ammo, which was made by Federal in full metal jacket and hollow point versions, and by Cor-Bon in hollow point.
The ammunition is not prohibitively expensive or too valuable to shoot, with the full metal jacket rounds going for 75 cents to $1.50 per round, and the hollow points $1.25 and up. Yes, the ammo is precious, but it is still a viable round for target or self-defense shooting.
I am still astonished at the low price of that pistol overseas (though I don't understand the vagaries of exchange rates, etc.) and I can assure you that if you purchased it over there, and are legally able to sell it here, you could do so very, very quickly.
Congratulations on an amazing find. There were only 170 total of the pistol you have, with 100 shipped to Wischo and the others retained here in the U.S. With the other 356TSW models made by Smith, there are less than 1,500 of these semi-autos in the world, along with however many of the revolvers (the PC Model 940 "Pocket Rocket") Smith produced, for which I haven't seen numbers but would suspect they are very low (say, less than 500, as a guess.) See TJ Popkin's post above for a series of photos that includes the 940.
I am not a reloader myself, but I have read that those who do have used 9mm x 19 dies successfully, and I have seen both new and used brass offered for sale in the 356TSW case. Standard 9mm projectiles are used in this process, and reloading data is available online and from folks here who "roll their own."
Obtaining a Super 9 at a price equal to $500 American is an outrageously good deal. One of these with the three barrels sold over here at auction not long ago for almost $3,000!
While it is true that many shooters (of the very few that own 356TSW pistols, which include six semi-auto models and one revolver) do hand-load their ammunition, factory ammo is still available through online auctions or from places like this Forum where Smith enthusiasts gather. There is an ad right now in the classified section offering to sell 356TSW ammo, which was made by Federal in full metal jacket and hollow point versions, and by Cor-Bon in hollow point.
The ammunition is not prohibitively expensive or too valuable to shoot, with the full metal jacket rounds going for 75 cents to $1.50 per round, and the hollow points $1.25 and up. Yes, the ammo is precious, but it is still a viable round for target or self-defense shooting.
I am still astonished at the low price of that pistol overseas (though I don't understand the vagaries of exchange rates, etc.) and I can assure you that if you purchased it over there, and are legally able to sell it here, you could do so very, very quickly.
Congratulations on an amazing find. There were only 170 total of the pistol you have, with 100 shipped to Wischo and the others retained here in the U.S. With the other 356TSW models made by Smith, there are less than 1,500 of these semi-autos in the world, along with however many of the revolvers (the PC Model 940 "Pocket Rocket") Smith produced, for which I haven't seen numbers but would suspect they are very low (say, less than 500, as a guess.) See TJ Popkin's post above for a series of photos that includes the 940.
I am not a reloader myself, but I have read that those who do have used 9mm x 19 dies successfully, and I have seen both new and used brass offered for sale in the 356TSW case. Standard 9mm projectiles are used in this process, and reloading data is available online and from folks here who "roll their own."
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Lewieke
Member
Great info, thx.
Getting the right to purchase firearms is in many European countries a rather complicated process. You need authorisation from local police, regional government and in my case, I have to defy the (inconstitutional) refusal by starting a procedure before the interior ministry to claim my rights as a civilian. This creates some issues on the second hand market. Fortunately I have found a great source in one of the neighbouring countries and I have the international expertise in exports and imports. Not as liberal as the US as you'll understand. I have processed the whole deal and from now on it wil take between 7 - 10 weeks before I actually get the piece.
This is the beauty I'm talking about.
Getting the right to purchase firearms is in many European countries a rather complicated process. You need authorisation from local police, regional government and in my case, I have to defy the (inconstitutional) refusal by starting a procedure before the interior ministry to claim my rights as a civilian. This creates some issues on the second hand market. Fortunately I have found a great source in one of the neighbouring countries and I have the international expertise in exports and imports. Not as liberal as the US as you'll understand. I have processed the whole deal and from now on it wil take between 7 - 10 weeks before I actually get the piece.
This is the beauty I'm talking about.
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Lewieke
Member
Great info, thx.
Getting the right to purchase firearms is in many European countries a rather complicated process. You need authorisation from local police, regional government and in my case, I have to defy the (inconstitutional) refusal by starting a procedure before the interior ministry to claim my rights as a civilian. This creates some issues on the second hand market. Fortunately I have found a great source in one of the neighbouring countries and I have the international expertise in exports and imports. Not as liberal as the US as you'll understand. I have processed the whole deal and from now on it wil take between 7 - 10 weeks before I actually get the piece.
This is the beauty I'm talking about.
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That looks great! I wish S&W had made more multi-caliber pistols. Congratulations!
Lewieke
Member
It starts with MSF88xx
That's surprising; it's outside the range provided by Roy Jinks on two separate production letters, and outside the range I've seen posted in pictures online (except for the TDU64xx pistols... and the blurry picture in my original post labeled as MSF6928?, but what really looks like MSF8328).
Looks like you might have an excellent candidate for an additional production letter to solve this little mystery.
vigil617
US Veteran
Lewieke, it's a gorgeous pistol and package. I am green with envy over here across the pond from you!
It's interesting that the Super 9, being such a nice pistol and packaged with the three barrels, is from the production side of Smith & Wesson and not from the Performance Center as so many other "super" pistols were, especially in the 356TSW caliber. That's not a criticism at all -- just interesting that the production side got into a limited run, specialty pistol like that one.
You will have many many years of shooting enjoyment from that piece, and I am happy for you that you obtained it!
It's interesting that the Super 9, being such a nice pistol and packaged with the three barrels, is from the production side of Smith & Wesson and not from the Performance Center as so many other "super" pistols were, especially in the 356TSW caliber. That's not a criticism at all -- just interesting that the production side got into a limited run, specialty pistol like that one.
You will have many many years of shooting enjoyment from that piece, and I am happy for you that you obtained it!
The Performance Center .356TSW pistols were manufactured using the Briley Titanium Nitride Bushing system. The std. Super 9 was made with conventional 9mm barrels without the Briley bushing. Accuracy is amazing with the Briley…so good, in fact, that it convinced me to utilize the system on some 1911's that had marginal accuracy. Result….installing the bushing resulted in remarkable improvement in accuracy.
Most of the info is in this thread!
It's a highly desireable package, and they don't come by very often at all.
Pete388: I've added the MSF83xx serial number range to the original post, it looks like there might be a 2 hiding under the black dot, that would make it very close to the other MSF8328 super 9 I have found a picture for.
I'm hoping Lewieke will chime back in when he receives his super 9, I'm wondering if the MSF88xx is actually a MSF83xx.
I'm hoping Lewieke will chime back in when he receives his super 9, I'm wondering if the MSF88xx is actually a MSF83xx.
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