617 Warranty Work

[gk9344]

My brand new 617 4" just returned from a trip to S&W for warranty work. Turn around time was right at 4 weeks.
I purchased this revolver with the intent of using it to improve my live fire double action trigger. The 1st range trip was a real disappointment.
While it seemed to work fine in single action, I had a lot of difficulty with the trigger in double action. Around 30% of the time the hammer would not release with the trigger fully depressed. I had, what I consider, an inordinate number of misfires in double action and the ejection of the spent casings consistently required more force on the ejector rod than I felt comfortable with. I have not dry fired this revolver since it was purchased.
The warranty ticket indicated S&W evaluated & repaired the revolver along with cutting the forcing cone, repairing the barrel and range testing it.
Assuming I have described the issues correctly, why would S&W need to cut the forcing cone & repair the barrel?
I hope to get to the range this week to see if the issues have been resolved.
Thanks for any input.

 

[Harv 24]

What issue made you send it in the first place?

Take a look at the ratchets on the extractor star. Do any of them look boogered up.

 

[wproct]

Imperfections of a forcing cone is a rather common issue or complaint, but normally the issues that you stated wouldn't lead one to think of the forcing cone. "Repair barrel" could describe a number of things such as the crown and forcing cone and the barrel/cylinder gap. Will be interesting to see how the revolver performs after their work.

 

[Jimbo41]

I've always guessed that they check a bunch of things, even of unrelated to the problem. Kinda like when you take a car in for service.

 

[bobsguns]

The warranty ticket indicated S&W evaluated & repaired the revolver along with cutting the forcing cone, repairing the barrel and range testing it.
Assuming I have described the issues correctly, why would S&W need to cut the forcing cone & repair the barrel?

I would think Smith found them out-of-spec?

Be thankful they may have saved you a second return trip, IMO.

Is yours the 10-shot model?

 

[gk9344]

What issue made you send it in the first place?

Take a look at the ratchets on the extractor star. Do any of them look boogered up.

Issues which generated return were described in the initial post. The extractor star does not appear to be damaged. I tried to clean the revolver up really good prior to sending it back. It's appears multiple rounds were put through it.

 

[gk9344]

I would think Smith found them out-of-spec?

Be thankful they may have saved you a second return trip, IMO.

Is yours the 10-shot model?

Yes, the 10 shot model.

 

[Harv 24]

Well here is my sad story.. I bought a New Model 617. The first one I ordered, I never took ownership as the side plate screws were boogered up and finish was worn off the front and rear sights and the gun had large carbon deposits on it. They ordered me a second one which looked better so I made the transfer.

When I shot it, the rear sight blade had to be moved all the way to the left to zero and it was still off, and the rear elevation was bottomed out. The extractor star ratchets had several that were boogered up. I sent it back and 4 weeks later the sights were better aligned and they replaced the extractor.

Took the gun shooting and it worked fine, but some brands of ammo extracted very hard and some would have to be forced in to the chamber to fire.

So I jumped on the travelling 22 reamer program and waited to get the finishing reamer. I reamed out all 10 chambers and now rds just drop in flush and extract with ease.. I also replaced the front sight with a taller Dawson Fiber optic.

I'm finally in a good spot with this $1000 revolver. But I have to say, I am less then Impressed with new firearms. S&W did fix all my issues, but the fact they let so many questionable guns out in the first place, is telling.

Go to the gunsmith forum and email to get on the 22 reamer list. Ream out you cylinder. It will surprise you how much metal comes out.

 

[Harv 24]

Oh, I forgot to add, I also put in a extended TK customs firing pin and now it fires all ammo reliably. The frame mounted firing pin sucks in my opinion.

 

[gk9344]

Well here is my sad story.. I bought a New Model 617. The first one I ordered, I never took ownership as the side plate screws were boogered up and finish was worn off the front and rear sights and the gun had large carbon deposits on it. They ordered me a second one which looked better so I made the transfer.

When I shot it, the rear sight blade had to be moved all the way to the left to zero and it was still off, and the rear elevation was bottomed out. The extractor star ratchets had several that were boogered up. I sent it back and 4 weeks later the sights were better aligned and they replaced the extractor.

Took the gun shooting and it worked fine, but some brands of ammo extracted very hard and some would have to be forced in to the chamber to fire.

So I jumped on the travelling 22 reamer program and waited to get the finishing reamer. I reamed out all 10 chambers and now rds just drop in flush and extract with ease.. I also replaced the front sight with a taller Dawson Fiber optic.

I'm finally in a good spot with this $1000 revolver. But I have to say, I am less then Impressed with new firearms. S&W did fix all my issues, but the fact they let so many questionable guns out in the first place, is telling.

Go to the gunsmith forum and email to get on the 22 reamer list. Ream out you cylinder. It will surprise you how much metal comes out.

 

[RH45]

My brand new 617 4" just returned from a trip to S&W for warranty work. Turn around time was right at 4 weeks.
I purchased this revolver with the intent of using it to improve my live fire double action trigger. The 1st range trip was a real disappointment.
While it seemed to work fine in single action, I had a lot of difficulty with the trigger in double action. Around 30% of the time the hammer would not release with the trigger fully depressed. I had, what I consider, an inordinate number of misfires in double action and the ejection of the spent casings consistently required more force on the ejector rod than I felt comfortable with. I have not dry fired this revolver since it was purchased.
The warranty ticket indicated S&W evaluated & repaired the revolver along with cutting the forcing cone, repairing the barrel and range testing it.
Assuming I have described the issues correctly, why would S&W need to cut the forcing cone & repair the barrel?
I hope to get to the range this week to see if the issues have been resolved.
Thanks for any input.

You don't say what ammunition you were trying to use. I have found that some work better than others.
Your later post says they played with the forcing cone and barrel. Neither of those have anything to do with it not firing, or sticky extraction. If it was mine, I'd start with polishing the cylinder/chambers with lead removal cloth to remove any carbon and try a variety of different ammunition

 

[gk9344]

You don't say what ammunition you were trying to use. I have found that some work better than others.
Your later post says they played with the forcing cone and barrel. Neither of those have anything to do with it not firing, or sticky extraction. If it was mine, I'd start with polishing the cylinder/chambers with lead removal cloth to remove any carbon and try a variety of different ammunition

I started with CCI Mini Mags (about a 100 rounds) and then another 50 rounds with a mixed bag of brands. The issue with not firing had more to do with the hammer not being released in DA when fully depressed. I was able to fire these rounds in SA when reloaded.
One of the responders suggested I get on the list for using the .22 reamer. While the suggestion is appreciated, I'm not ready to go down that road.
From my perspective, it costs nothing but time to send it back to S&W for them to correct issues which should not exist with a new revolver. Based on what one reads on this forum, there are a significant number of complaints regarding S&W quality control on a variety of models.
Others have nothing but high praise for this particular model for its accuracy and its ability to fire anything it's fed.
Please don't interpret my response as unappreciative. I'm just a little disappointed with the vagueness of the evaluate/repair portion of the response from S&W. I would have thought they would have addressed something associated with the trigger mechanism.
I've yet to take it to the range. Ideally everything will be as it should be.
Thanks for you input.

 

[ms]

They might have needed to set the barrel back a turn to correct barrel-cylinder gap after adjusting headspace and/or end shake.

 

[gk9344]

Mark, thanks for your informative response. Spent a little time on the internet to educate myself on issues in revolvers caused by out of spec head space & end shake. The following information comes courtesy of an AI search (in italics below).

Looking at my 617, it's obvious multiple rounds were put through it while S&W did the warranty work. Hopefully all issues have been resolved. Looking forward to getting to the range.

Based on what I found on the internet, I would suspect the issue was as you suggested in your post.

The following is from AI and better describes some of the issues I experienced than I did. End shake is next to undetectable by me.


Under-spec (too short) headspace issues in a revolver can cause the cylinder to fail to rotate or close fully, result in misfires due to the cartridge not being properly seated against the breech face, and jam the firearm's action. You can diagnose this condition by checking if a cartridge fails to chamber completely or requires excessive force to rotate the cylinder. Diagnosing and fixing these issues often requires specialized go and no-go gauges and should be performed by a qualified gunsmith.


Symptoms of Under-Spec Headspace in a Revolver

• Failure to Rotate/Close:
  The most common symptom is the inability of the cylinder to rotate freely or close completely, preventing the firearm from going into battery.

• Misfires:
  The firing pin may not properly strike the primer because the cartridge is not seated correctly in the chamber.
  Jamming:
  Forcing a cartridge into a short chamber can deform the case and cause it to jam the cylinder.
  
  
  Difficult Cylinder Rotation:
  You may need excessive force to rotate the cylinder, or it might bind altogether.
  
  

Revolver end shake is the excessive back-and-forth movement of the cylinder, and issues arise when this movement causes a gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone, allowing hot gas to escape, damaging the firearm and potentially burning the shooter. The most common fix is to add shims or end shake bearings to the extractor rod assembly to eliminate the play. Other fixes involve replacing worn parts like the cylinder stop, machining the forcing cone, or addressing damaged crane or cylinder slots.

What is end shake?

• End shake refers to the cylinder's forward and backward movement, as opposed to side-to-side play (cylinder slop).
• A small amount of end shake is normal, but excessive movement can lead to problems.

Problems caused by excessive end shake

• Gas loss:
  The gap between the cylinder and forcing cone allows hot gas and energy to escape during firing.
  

• Component damage:
  This escaping gas can damage the forcing cone, top strap, and crane of the revolver.
  
• Misfires:
  In extreme cases, the cylinder may not lock into proper alignment with the barrel, leading to timing issues and potential misfires.
  
• Burning:
  The hot gas can also burn the shooter's fingers.