620 vs 686+ for new guy

[Cloudpeak]

Howdy. First post.

Having no revolver now, I think I should probably have at least one. After 35 years of not owning a revolver, I bought a SP101 a few years ago but my hands just didn't get along with it and I didn't shoot it well. I've shot thousands of rounds through semi-autos, mainly 1911's and those grips work very well for me.

So, I resigned myself to be a semi-auto guy---until I shot my son-in-law's 3" 686+. I was impressed! We put over 200 rounds of my .38 SWC cast handloads through it and some .357's. The gun was quite pleasant to shoot with either and I was bouncing empty Coleman propane cylinder's pretty regularly at 25 yards (single action.) The grip on the 3" worked very well with my hands.

I have a chance to buy a 620 with a 4" barrel for $600, tax included which is $150 cheaper than a 4" 686+ which is not in stock at my local store. There's not much to choose from in north central Wyoming and I'd prefer to have the gun in my hands as opposed to ordering online.

So, the question, what are the differences that I should be aware of? I don't plan on carrying this gun daily and it will be for range fun and, if I can get good enough, I'll shoot it at our plate shoots. (One of the best shots in our club uses a 6" 686+ and she's dynamite competition.) Most shooting will be with reduced lead bullet loads but I may carry a heavy bullet load in .357 when I backpack in the Bighorns.

I've been able (I think) to figure out that the grip on the 3" 686+ that I shot is different from that of either the 620 or 686. Can the style trip on the 3" be used on the 4" guns?

Thanks,

Cloudpeak

 

[handgunner356]

The 620 and the 686 share the same frame, so grips will fit either gun. One of the main differances in the two is that the 620 uses a 2-pc or "Tensioned barrel". Some people don't care for it but from all the reports I've heard they are very accurate barrels. Earlier 686s' pryer to mid-'90s' and -5 models did have square butt frames on anything over 4" so those won't fit the same grips as a 3" round butt gun.

 

[scooter123]

Both of the current 620 and 686 revolvers use the round butt grip frame that probably matches that 3 inch 686 you were shooting. So, if you want that particular grip all you have to do is find it. Odds are pretty good you'll find it listed on S&W's site but they do change the products offered over time. If you can't find it on S&W's web site take a look at Hogue's web site. Following is a link to Hogue. What you want to look for are the K or L frame Round Butt grip selection, they have wide selection as you will see. Hogue also builds grips for S&W so the fit is perfect.

http://www.hoguestore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=22_36

BTW, the 686 comes in either 6 or 7 shot models, the 7 shooter is the 686 Plus. The 620 is only offered as a 4 inch 7 shot revolver at this time, I keep hoping to a 6 inch version to arrive but that hasn't happened yet. As for the difference between the 620 and 686, the major difference is the barrel used. The 686 uses a 1 piece barrel that is attached at only one point, the frame. The 620 uses a a 2 piece barrel that is mounted within a barrel shroud so it's retained at both the muzzle and the frame and the barrel is under tension. Because of this, the 620 is the more accurate model, mount a 2 MOA red dot scope on a 620 and you can shoot dimes at 40 or 50 feet if your up to it. However, due to the short barrel length on the 3 inch 686, it's also a very accurate revolver because the barrel has less whip than the longer barreled models.

As you might guess, I am a big fan of the 620. On two seperate occasions I have managed to produce 3 shot cloverleafs at 40 feet that I could completely cover with a dime. Since I did this using the iron sights I will tell you that it wasn't easy, the sight radius on the 620 is a bit short for doing something like this routinely, with a good scope this would be much easier. Currently I am shopping for a red dot for my 610 and I know it will spend some time on the 620 from time to time. BTW, the 610 has a 6 1/2 inch barrel on it with a big sight radius and I still can't match the the accuracy of my 620. However, the 610 is pretty darn good and a lot cheaper to shoot because it'll run on the 40 S&W.

I'll also warn you that one member here had the muzzle end cap break off the barrel of his 620 due to bad metalurgy. So, he may post pics of the results. When you see that you need to keep in mind that the barrels on some 686's have failed in a near identical manner at the frame. Basically, lemons do happen on rare occasions because S&W can't afford to X Ray every single barrel for poor metalugy.

Some will also tell you that the 2 piece barrel is a cost cutting measure. How they can come to the conclusion that manufacturing 2 precision parts is less expensive that just making one precision part I don't understand. BTW, I've been a Manufacturing and Design Engineer since 1982 so I know just a bit about manufacturing economics. Bottomline, there are a lot of change haters who don't approve of this type of barrel. I am not one of then, in terms of System Dynamics it's a superior method for mounting a barrel on a handgun and I personally feel that it's probably slightly more expensive at present. If S&W were to use the method more widely it has the potential for some cost reduction because it would allow them to stock just one length of barrel stock and thread them to fit for each application. However, that hasn't happened yet so it's probably a bit cost negative for S&W. Bottomline, the 620 is a bargain, especially at only 600 dollars, I paid 675 for mine.

PS; any new 620 or 686 will have the infamous "Lock". On the lighter J frames this lock has had instances of the lock self activating during recoil. This has not been a widespread problem with the heavier 620 or 686, in fact I have not seen one single posting about the lock self activating on either of these 2 models. If that lock offends you, you can remove it in about 15 minutes, it's pretty simple and you can find instructions for doing this in the FAQ's. Personally, I find it convenient at times.

 

[Cary]

I have a M620 as well. I've had it for maybe five years. It was a replacement from S&W for a M19-6 that developed a crack in the forcing cone. I like my M620 as it does everything I want a 357 mag revolver to do. It is my hiking/camping gun. I am also one of those who actually use the lock when the gun is stored at home. This gun has developed no problems since I have owned it.
Cary

 

[Cloudpeak]

Thanks for the reply handgunner356 and a big thanks, scooter123 for the very detailed reply. Very helpful and I appreciate the time you took to write.

I guess I'm not too worried about the different kind of barrel style or the lock. From what I've read, the lock is easy to eliminate and if there is a problem with the revolver, Smith has a very good customer service reputation.

It looks like, if the factory grips don't work for me that there's no end of substitute choices and it looks like finding the style of grip my son in law had on his 3" won't be a problem.

I won't be putting a scope on this handgun. (The only scoped handgun I've ever owned was a XP100 221 Fireball I bought when they first came out.)

From all that I've read, every manufacturer can produce a lemon on occasion. How they handle the problem is the main concern. Springfield Armory, Dan Wesson, Smith and Ruger are all good in that department. If I had to send the Smith back, it's not like I have a shortage of handguns (although I'm a "piker" when it comes to a lot of folks on this forum.) But, I'm a shooter, not a collector. If I don't shoot a firearm, I sell it or trade it.

I'm researching this forum right now on the 625 Mountain gun in 45 Colt. I have lots of 45 ACP brass and molds/dies, etc. and I'd have the cylinder machined for moon clips for shooting ACP's for fun, practice and plate shoots and for backpacking in the wilderness area, I could pack some 45 Colt loads. We only have a few black bears (no griz), lots of mountain lions and way too many moose. The moose are the animals that make me a bit nervous (probably wouldn't see the mountain lions coming before they snapped your neck). I've had too many moose more than comfortably close on various hikes, especially the cows with calves.

I've read of .357 loadings with up to 180 grain bullets but I imagine they'd be kind of hard on the gun?

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. I'm off to do more learning

Cloudpeak

 

[scooter123]

Actually, you can get 200 grain loads in 357 Magnum. Check the following links, it's not cheap but it would do the job on a whitetail or similar sized animal.

DoubleTap Ammunition

DoubleTap Ammunition

Finally, one of the hardest hitting 357 Magnums that can be purchased commercially. Warning, this one will sting to shoot.

DoubleTap Ammunition

However, a moose is large enough that I would use the gun as a noisemaker, I wouldn't actually shoot one unless there was absolutely no other option avialable. Quite simply, a moose is large enough that you really need a good high powered rifle, which I am sure you know since you live in an area where they are common. The good news is that a 357 Magnum out of a 4 inch barrel is quite loud, so you have an excellent noise maker.

I'll also tell you that the recoil with Double Tap's 357 Magnum loads are quite stout because they load all of their offerings hot. Probably quite a bit stouter than the 357 Magnums you were shooting in your son-in-laws 686. If you find your first grip choice to be inadequate for a heavy Magnum load, you will want to look into purchasing the Hogue Monogrip for the 500 Magnum. It's a large sized rubber grip that does an excellent job of making a hard hitting Magnum enjoyable to shoot and it's what my 620 wears. I know they don't have the round butt profile you looking for but I strongly recomend that you purchase this grip for those times when you want to shoot some hard hitting loads. One thing you may not be aware of is the a hot 357 Magnum can exceed 700 ft.lbs. of muzzle energy in a handgun that doesn't have a recoil dampening slide. Once you light off one of these hot rounds, you'll find that shooting your 45 auto feels like shooting a 22 in comparison. Link follows.

Product: Model 500 Impact Absorbing Hogue Square Butt Conversion Grips

BTW, don't be too sure you won't ever scope your 620. Weaver offers a mounting rail that will bolt right up to a new 620 because they come pre-tapped for a mounting rail. So, to mount the rail all you have to do is remove the rear sight and screw the rail in place. Then you can mount a Reflex sight such as the Burris Fastfire and drive your shooting buddies nuts by shooting at dimes. Loaded with a 130 grain 38 spl. the 620 is flat out fun to plink with and very accurate.

 

[Cloudpeak]

Thanks, again, scooter123.

Your comments on the .357 really brought back some memories. I had several Ruger single action and a couple of S&W 19's 40 years or so ago. Back in the days when Remington was selling those amazing, "instant leading" 357 loads. The recoil and noise (though I always wore hearing protection) was sharp. I eventually traded out of all the .357's after buying my Ruger 6 1/2" flat top 44 magnum. To me, the 44 was more pleasant to shoot. I shot my first deer with that Ruger at about 50 yards, one shot. I also shot many coyotes, wild dogs and badgers on my ranch with that Ruger and used to have a hoot shooting at gallon jugs full of water at long distances.

I don't hunt anymore and don't intend to. I'm 63 and have shot enough game. I'm more into fly fishing for trout and backpacking. Because I spent a lot of money on lightweight backpacking gear, I'm not wild about packing any kind of weapon and certainly not a rifle. On the other hand, even one of my 1911's would probably be better than poking a moose with my hiking stick.

BTW, the closet I've been to a moose was about 12 feet. I was wading in a willow infested creek and my fishing buddy who was upstream said to turn around and say howdy to my new friend. A young bull was standing on the bank. Fortunately, he was in a good mood and when I spoke to him, he left (as I was tip toeing upstream).

I don't really like to think of trying to save my life by shooting a moose who's "on the fight" but you'd stand some kind of chance if you were armed. I can draw and down 5, 6" steel plates at 7 yards in 3.2 seconds so I have some hope that this skill might come in handy in case something goes wrong with a moose encounter. Yep, they're big but they aren't made out of Kevlar. When I was in the cattle feeding business, we downed 15-20 1,300 lb steers over the years (too sick or injured so the packer wouldn't take them. The sick ones went to the rendering company, the injured one's into someone's freezer) with a 22 or 38 with one shot and they dropped like a rock.

I won't be installing a scope as they're not allowed by our steel plate club. Iron sights only. I'd like to develop enough skill with a double action revolver to be competitive at our shoots. I kind of got "dialed in" with the 1911 and may have been winning more than my fair share of matches. They just don't seem to be as happy to see me show up now days as they were when I stunk!

I'm heading 40 miles north to shop (closest WalMart) and to go look at the 620 this am. I'm still thinking about the 45 Colt Mountain gun milled for moon clips. I prefer loading 45's as it's easy to see the powder charge before seating on my LNL AP.

Thanks,

Cloudpeak

 

[Cloudpeak]

I bought the 620

I bought the 620 yesterday. My buddy was wrong on the price I first posted. I paid $685.00 which includes 6% sales tax.

I removed the cylinder assembly and side plate and lubed the crane and cylinder and the internals. I was surprised to see how dry they were. I was impressed with the design of the internals and liked the fact that it came apart much easier than my ex-SP101 Ruger.

As my daughter left with all my reloaded .38 ammo (I didn't figure on owning another revolver), I was forced to buy a box of American Eagle 158gr LRN. I also had 5 rounds of my reloads using a Lee 158gr Wadcutter over 3.5gr of W231. My reloads were the first rounds out of the gun. Not a very good group---1.1" OH at 7 yards, single action.

I shot 27 of the American Eagle rounds. At 7 yards, OH, SA the gun shot a 6 shot, .645" group. In double action fire, it grouped 5 shots in .631 and 6 shots increased the group size to 1.16. I'm pretty darned tickled. Maybe an old, 1911 shooter can learn to shoot a double action revolver.

I like the hammer block design as opposed to the transfer bar ignition of the Ruger. In my 1911's, I made "shock absorber's" out of a cattle ear tag for the hammer so I didn't have to listen to the metal on metal contact during extensive dry fire. I was happy to see that I could fit one on the 620 with some slight trimming. Should be easier on the parts and lots cheaper than snap caps.

Here's a picture of the "cushion" on a 1911:

Now it's time to buy some once fired brass and load up some ammo and start practicing for our plate shoots. Should be interesting (and fun!)

Thanks for all who answered my novice questions. Reading through past threads has been a great education, as well.

Cloudpeak

 

[BillyWayne]

Hey! Lets see some pictures of the new 620.

 

[Cary]

Cloudpeak,
I'm glad you got your M620 and am happy with it. I came into possession of mine when the M19-6 I had developed a crack in the forcing cone. S&W replaced the M19-6 with the M620 at no cost to me. The M620 has received a lot of negative press because of the MIM parts, two piece barrel, and the IL. I like mine and have seen posts on here from others who like them. Enjoy it.
Cary

 

[Big Mike]

I have been looking at getting a 619 (fixed sight)...

 

[Cloudpeak]

Hey! Lets see some pictures of the new 620.

Here ya go, Billy. The target on the right was double action and the one on the left, single action after I raised the sights. 7 yards offhand with American Eagle factory rounds. I've got some 38 brass on the way and a hundred or so 158gr SWC's cast. I have several thousand 124gr RN and 105gr SWC bullets cast that I shoot in my 9mm STI Trojan, sized .357 that I'm going to try in the Smith. When I cast new bullets for the .357 (new mold coming), I'll size to .358. Not too bad of a group if you let me leave out a flyer or two

 

[BillyWayne]

Cloudpeak, nice looking toy. I wanted a 620 for a while. I happened accross a 619 for $369 one day and picked it up. I sold it a month later. It is fixed sight and everything shot far low. Too bad too. It had a great trigger. I still may pick up a 620 someday. They seem to be very accurate and have great triggers.

 

[Cloudpeak]

Cloudpeak, nice looking toy. I wanted a 620 for a while. I happened accross a 619 for $369 one day and picked it up. I sold it a month later. It is fixed sight and everything shot far low. Too bad too. It had a great trigger. I still may pick up a 620 someday. They seem to be very accurate and have great triggers.

My 620 has a very nice single action trigger pull. Double action is a bit heavy but I'm a 1911 shooter so it's no wonder it seems heavy to me. I do have the Wolff spring pack for a lighter mainspring and rebound spring assortment on the way to tinker with.

The supply of 620's may dry up as I read a post somewhere that they'd been discontinued. I like the look of the shorter barrel lug. My reloads and factory 38 loads are very mild in the 620 compared to shooting them through my ex-SP101 and it's fun to shoot.

Anyway, I'll have fun casting, reloading and practicing. I'm hoping to get good enough to be competitive at our plate shoots. If not, at least I've had some fun

 

[Stainz]

The unsung trait of the 620... it points beautifully - just like the 4" 66! Okay, better - it has the L-frame's larger fc, 7-shot capability, etc. Actually, at 36.9 oz, it is .1 oz less than the 4" 66... and 2 oz less than the standard 4" 686+ with it's full lug. That extra 2 oz is 'out front' at the muzzle with the 686+, so it may keep the muzzle down in heavier recoil, but it makes it nose heavy when 'pointing'. Try the 686+ with the 620 - the difference is uncanny. You got the one I wanted!

Actually, a funny story... I went to buy a 4" .38/.357M - I had a 2" 10, 5" 627M & h-l 686+, & 6" 66 - no 4". It was 5/08 - they were out of 620's - had the new 4" 627 Pro - for $80 more. I was selling my Rugers - had the extra moola - actually bought a 4" 64 LNIB, too - fun day! Love them both - great revolvers. I still think about that 620... even considered a 619, the 620's fixed sight/holster gun sibling, a few months back - local BPS had them at $519!

You got a good deal on a great firearm. All but two of my revolvers have MIM parts - most have the IL. All are shooters - and have had zero problems. Wolff springs, post break-in, will lower that DA pull - just don't go to the reduced power hammer spring unless you have a good supply of Federal SP primers. As to ammo capability - if S&W stamps it a .357 Magnum, it'll shoot a long lifetime of standard SAAMI spec .357 Magnums from commercial vendors... stay clear of 'plus' loaded, so-called Ruger/TC only, ammo. While the S&W .500 Magnum grips mentioned earlier fit K, L, N, & X frames, they are overkill on my .357 Magnums. I like wood grips - like Ahrends - but I load/shoot glorified .38s in .357M cases. I went towards the 'light' some years back - and, at nearing 62, I am all revolvers now. Don't forget - next revolver - the 625JM - uses moonclipped .45 ACPs... your 1911 ammo can fit a revolver quite nicely! Good luck.

Stainz

 

[Cary]

I've seen so much M620 & M619 bashing on this and other forums that it's nice to read some positve comments on them.
Cary