686/586 Accuracy Expectations

[Dr.J]

Relatively new to the forum and hopping to obtain comments re. the suitability of a 6” barrel S&W 686 or 586 for my intended use. I’m an experienced shooter, bullseye, trap, and metallic silhouette competition. My one revolver is a 6 shot model 617. I’m looking for a range gun for informal target and metallic pistol silhouette. Accuracy is my key criterion. Most of the time I’ll be shooting relatively light .38 special power loads, but want the ability to be able to reach out and touch a 100 meter ram every now and then. My questions are:
1. Would the 686 and 586 be good choices? Would one be better than the other? Are there other models I should consider?
2. I understand that accuracy is highly dependent on the shooter, but am looking for a realistic assessment of the 686 and 586 accuracy’s. I’d appreciate your comments. Thanks, Tom

 

[pantannojack]

In the old days, my 686 2.5" used to hit a 36" gong @ 200 yds. 158g LSWC 4.4g 231. Aim High.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Looks like its possible.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEndyxR85Kg[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KetjziNkhnw[/ame]

 

[schutz5]

Yes ,yes, and yes!

 

[Fishinfool]

From a solid rest, at 25 yards, with ammo it likes, I would think a 6 inch L frame should group around an inch to an inch and a half for 6 shots.

My 4 inch 586 did very well for me in the PPC game.

No real difference between the 5 and 686 except less finish maintenance with the stainless gun. Modern Smiths have the reputation of proper and consistent throats and bores, making for very accurate guns. Some don't like the new rifling method for cast bullet shooting, but that's what I mainly shoot in all my revolvers, and the three newer model Smiths I own shoot them just fine.

Larry

 

[jaymoore]

Near as I can tell, it mostly depends on the individual revolver and, to a lesser extent, the rounds that get put through it. I shoot (not this year- Covid madness) IHMSA Field Pistol regularly, and have had a 6" 686 that did pretty well, for a time. Not sure what went on with that revolver: Scores started in the mid-20s on the half size targets, then slowly declined. Could have been the factory .357 JSP load. It did a number on the forcing cone and barrel face.
Very unlike my "case full of IMR4198 under a swaged lead 240gr bullet" .44 mag loads! Whilst it leaves lots of unburnt powder, velocities are super consistent and not only doesn't erode the back end of the barrel, it doesn't need cleaning for thousands of rounds.

But back to whether a 6" barreled 5/686 can be put to good use out to 100 yards on steel critters: I think if the revolver is put together well and everything is right, then it should be fine. The relatively slow rifling twist rate may require lighter than expected bullets past 50 yards, or not. I've several .357s that do great out to 50 then start "shotgunning" past that distance. Otherwise, I'd shoot them instead of the various .44s.

Oddly, the 6 1/2" barreled .45 Colt 625 and a 8 3/8" barreled .32 Magnum 16-4 have shown more promise than the .357 in any barrel length for IHMSA Field Pistol(or NRA Hunter Pistol). Shot my first "31" with the 625 some years back, it's just very powder position sensitive. But the .44s have been the best. Took years to make it work, though!

Apologies for the vague answer, my long range shooting endeavors take a long time to get definitive results! Multiple experiments on going in multiple platforms.

P.S.: A 4" barreled .38 Spl. early Model 67 S&W with stainless steel colored sights front and rear was good for a 15/40 last time out in IHMSA "Bordello" category, which limits barrel length to 4" in revolvers and restricts sight adjustments to the first five sighter shots before scoring begins. Not terrible for a 100yd match shot on a whim.

P.P.S.: From a quick eyeball guess, the steel plates shown in the videos above are probably about twice the body height of a Field Pistol Ram.

 

[stansdds]

S&W's revolvers in 38 Special and 357 Magnum tend to be quite accurate. Would a 586/686 check all the requirements for you? I think so. So would a 6 inch barreled Model 19/66, or Model 27, or a Model 28.


For these revolvers, I think the bigger determining factor in accuracy will come from how well you can hold them on target. The full underlug of the L-frame barrel dampens muzzle rise with magnum ammo, but it also makes the longer barrels feel very muzzle heavy. Some people like this feeling, some do not.

 

[OLDSTER]

I too was a "successful" bullseye and PPC shooter back in the day. In production revolver comp. I shot either a Model 19, or a Python. I don't own either anymore, but I own a 686-4 that I purchased toward the end of my bullseye career, and shot my last few tourneys with it. That 686 is every bit as inherently accurate as either the Colt or the 19. So yes, a 686/586 will be more accurate than, dare I say, any shooter.

 

[jcs266]

In my experience with the two 686's I've carried and used off and on since 1985 I can honestly say the best shooting of my life (with a variety of handguns from .22 to .44 Mag, auto or revolver) has been with a 4" 686. I've found them to be EXTREMELY accurate if I do my part.

 

[Dr.J]

Thanks very much for your sharing your experience. It seems unanimous, the 686 is a winner. I’ll let you know how I proceed. Thanks again, Tom

 

[Protocall_Design]

The accuracy of any individual gun is mainly dependent on it being mechanically as it should be. They often come with minor deficiencies from the factory, so some are better than others. As a group, 586 and 686 guns are some of the finest revolvers ever made. Some individual ones need a little TLC. The main concerns for accuracy on these is correct timing (chamber to barrel alignment), throat is bullet size to +.001, forcing cone and muzzle crown. I have made several mediocre grouping ones into match grade ones simply by recutting the FC and MC with the proper pilot guided cutting tools. The rifling is nearly always fine, the ends were just poorly done. In many years I have seen only 2 or 3 with bad rifling, hundreds with good rifling.

For longer than 50 yard shooting with 357, I find that the heavier hollow point bullets give the best results. I have gotten very good groups with Sierra 170 gr. JHP and Hornady 180 gr. XTP bullets. Mostly 2" + or - at 100 yd. with 6" 686 off a bench rest with 4x crosshair scope. You will get better groups with a crosshair than a red dot past 25 yds. Due to the slow twist rate of the rifling, you will get better groups if you stay over 1150 FPS.

 

[CALREB]

DrJ, no knocks on a 586/686. But if you plan on shooting mostly 38 special, your going to end up cleaning out the cylinder a bunch. Another option would be one of the model 14-5/6 underlugged models. These guns were purpose built for the Police Distinguished match. The front sight on all these models is a patridge and easily changed or modified. Although you can find 586/686s that have patridge sights also. Shooting wadcutters is like a 22 and 158 SWC makes one hole at 25 yards . Under 1.5" at 50 yards using WW 158 or Precision Delta. I used to end every practice session shooting 8" plates at 100 yards pretty easily. I have seen 586/686s that were as accurate, but I think as a model the 14-5/6 were assembled better, with more attention toward the accuracy issue. Testing them with a match 38 range rod, I have only seen 1 that had a small tick on 1 chamber. L frames not near that, unless you get a Distinguished model but those are a bit hard to find. You are pretty lucky there are 1 of each for sale right now on this forum 14-5 and 686 with patridge. Not mine ....Of course the L frame will hold up better if you are going to shoot hotter loads and give you the 357 advantage. I have about a half dozen 14s and a couple of them have over 40,000 rounds of 38 SWC/ 38 special run through them, With no problems. Both guns still hold X at 50 yards( although I can only do it if I use a pretty good support) . The actions on the K frames is a little easier to shoot D/A in my opinion. But if I shot an L frame as much I probably wouldnt notice. Anyway wanted you to know there was another gun option . Good luck.

 

[jaymoore]

For longer than 50 yard shooting with 357, I find that the heavier hollow point bullets give the best results. I have gotten very good groups with Sierra 170 gr. JHP and Hornady 180 gr. XTP bullets. Mostly 2" + or - at 100 yd. with 6" 686 off a bench rest with 4x crosshair scope. You will get better groups with a crosshair than a red dot past 25 yds. Due to the slow twist rate of the rifling, you will get better groups if you stay over 1150 FPS.

Oy! That's some mighty fine results. Best .357 groups I've gotten run 3" with a scoped 6"ish barreled PC 686+ "Light Hunter" off the bench at 100yds, but it's never been used for competition. Other scoped 686s have fallen well short of that mark. Stupidly enough, I find shooting from a bench with a handgun harder than even standing at times. Never mind "Creedmoor" or "Flop". In Field Pistol you need to reliably keep ten rounds, standing, inside 3" at 25 yards during practice to have good expectations of getting all of those dancing Chickens when match day rolls around. Not so easy....So far as anybody knows, nobody has ever shot a perfect score in Field Pistol, whether with a Contender or otherwise. Very, very few perfect scores ever recorded in Field Pistol Any Sight.

(The "easy" targets are the 50 yd Pigs. 75 yd Turkeys subtend the least MOA, but I often have a harder time with the 100 yd Field Pistol Rams. Probably due to losing a little concentration more than anything else.)

 

[Protocall_Design]

My best field pistol score ever was 34/40 with a S&W M16 .32 H&R mag. Sadly, that was one of many that got sold in divorce proceedings. I used to get 25 to 28 fairly often, but anything over 30 was hard to do. That was when I was shooting Sil. a lot, and I think a lot of people could shoot near 30, so not too amazing really.

 

[bigben55]

My first time to the range with the 6" 686-1 I got last month, I hit a steel target about 12"×12" at 55yds, standing, on my first shot. Then hit it repeatedly.

Damn accurate revolver!

 

[lrrifleman]

Dr J, back in the early 1980s I gave the 200m IHMSA matches a try with my 8 3/8" Model 27. That was almost 40 years and a bad concussion ago, so I don't remember my scores or exact load, but I was happy with the 200m results. I do remember that I fired the old Speer 146gr half jacketed SWCHP in 357 cases with 296 and magnum primers.

At 100 yards the round has the capability. I believe that the 5/686 platform will serve you well for 100 yard silhouette.

 

[Krogen]

You guys are stirring my interest! I shot Hunter's Pistol many moons ago with a 586 6" but candidly, I got better scores with a scoped Contender. These days we shoot Cowboy silhouette at my club. It's fired on Hunter's Pistol targets and we can shoot Hunter's Pistol at the same time. I think I'll dig out my old 586 and bring back some memories. Iron sights, older eyes and 100 m Rams. Current results probably won't align with the memories, but I'll have fun trying!

 

[rwsmith]

The only difference....

The only difference between the two is the 586 is blued steel and the 686 is Stain. Stl.

If you are going to buy a new one I'd go 686 because S&W has changed their blueing process to if you use any ammonia based cleaner on it it will turn plum colored.

 

[Walter Rego]

Before I bought my Model 586 no dash, the most accurate and easy to shoot well .357 revolver I owned was a late 1970's Dan Wesson Model 15-2 VH.
The Model 586 helped overcome my regrets over selling the Dan Wesson. I would look for an early one, hopefully in high condition.
The L frames were built on all new manufacturing equipment and probably got some extra attention on the assembly line when S&W was making a last gasp attempt to capture the rapidly dwindling police market as the switch to autoloaders was going on. While many people lament the loss of the pinned barrel and recessed cylinder, I think they are among the best mass produced revolvers of the last 50 years. Of course there are probably a few out there that don't quite measure up but most owners report excellent accuracy with their 586/686 guns.

 

[jaymoore]

My best field pistol score ever was 34/40 with a S&W M16 .32 H&R mag. Sadly, that was one of many that got sold in divorce proceedings. I used to get 25 to 28 fairly often, but anything over 30 was hard to do. That was when I was shooting Sil. a lot, and I think a lot of people could shoot near 30, so not too amazing really.

If I tried something but store bought cast bullets in my 16-4 it would probably do better, but it's good for mid-20s so far. The 29-3 keeps in the mid to high 20s with one 30 to date. The 629-6 in FPAS has multiple 30+ scores, finally bumped up to AAA last year, so finally AAA in both FP and FPAS. Delusions of eventually making International in at least one of the two using .44 Mag and a Smith revolver.... Funny, as I was never really a .44 fan and still think .41, .357, or .32 are better choices. (.25-20 is a fun round, but TCs? Mostly a "hate" relationship that continues to persist for some odd reason. Wish that there was a "K frame grip and trigger having" single shot pistol option!)